1915 Horn Button

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: 1915 Horn Button
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:07 am:

I am in need of a close up picture of a 1915 horn button, as well as the steering column mounting location of the horn button on a 1915. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 12:52 pm:

I was never aware that a 1915 had a horn button. I thought that they came along about 1917 with the combination horn button and magnito light switch. In my experience the 1915 had either a single twist bulb horn or an accessory Klaxon horn or both. The same applies to the post about a 1915 steering column horn wire tube. They didn't have one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 01:32 pm:

Bruce's book states that 10,000 electric horns were put on 1915's, beginning Jan 23, 1915.

T-7619 horn switch wire. (p 556)
I've seen those flanged push button switches mounted on the steering column with screws. And seen the horn tube on 1915 column.

(p212) "metal tube piece added to the column" Magneto horns on all cars by the fall of 1915

(p214) shows a picture of the switch on the column.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 01:41 pm:



Here is another '15 with the switch on the top of the column. Note the horn tube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 01:58 pm:

Ive seen an original 1915 without the wire tube, but with a horn button. Was there 2 different size buttons? Ive seen a large one and a smaller one on original cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 02:49 pm:

Look for 2 threaded holes on the top of the steering column housing just below the steering gear case. FYI The very earliest horn button used in 1915 fastened to one of the steering wheels spiders with a loop of wire to allow you to make a few turns. I personally have never seen that setup but got that info direct from Trent so I know it is right.

Glen:

Since the combo light twist switch and horn button (typically 1917 and later) resulted in the magneto wire being returned as a "HOT" from the button - there would be no reason to ever make a mag horn with 2 power connections since one would then always go to ground as was the case when using the combo switch/horn button. For typical 1915/1916 the horn wiring was from the magneto to the horn and then from the other side of the horn up to the button which then grounded this connection to the steering column. That is the way I have seen it wired and my son's very early 1916 (December, 1915 car) has original wiring tube and horn button held to the column via threaded machine screws. There is only 1 wire in the horn tube under the column.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Cicciarelli on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 03:08 pm:

Glen,
Yeah, the '15s I've seen have had a horn button, mounted on the top of the steering column.
Dan,
That looks like it might be a horn button, but that is not a '15 in the photo. Perhaps a '14? I just know it doesn't have the cowl that the 15's and '16's incorporated and the 14's did not.
Unfortunately I don't think I have a close up of the horn button, but I can check my files when I get home on my home computer. I know I've kept a ton of 1915 Runabout detail photos in a file on my home computer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 03:36 pm:

Dan, You may be right but why would they bother trying to mount a bulb horn under the hood if they had magnito horns in January? I always thought that those top of the steering column horn buttons were accessories. But what do I know. Not much!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 05:32 pm:

I have in my hands the "record of changes" for the "Horn to terminal wire assy, RHC & LHC" which was Ford Factory number 7915. The drawing for same is first dated 1/17/15. It was #20 flexible rubber covered copper wire 7-1/2" Long. It was shown int hose records as being "New Design - for use on 10,000 cars 1915" thus Ford was running with BOTH types of horns during 1915. Until 9/8/15 the wire was furnished with loops on the ends only and no terminals. This is the wire than ran from the magneto to one of the horn terminals. The bulb horn was used on the "other" cars that did not get the mag horn. For 1916 the electric horn was standardized and began to be used on all of them starting in 10/8/15 revision date. None of these cars had the twist turn switch yet.

The HORN TO SWITCH wire was Ford Factory number 7917A and was drawn up on 1/27/15. It was also #20 rubber coated wire but was 34-3/8" long eventually but started out at 41-3/8" length. It also originally was supplied simply with loops on the ends until 9/8/15 when it was fitted with terminals. Those terminals were T1385 Factory number. This is the wire that ran from the horn up to the horn button (Ford called it the "switch") to be grounded there.

Lots of factory info available in the archives for those willing to research and get the drawings and change records. Of course it is probably cheaper to simply copy something and guess about the details or changes made to that item during production. The customers will then advise the maker as to what the details are and what does not fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Haywood on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 06:40 pm:

My 15 did not have the holes on the steering column. The horn button was mounted next to the light switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David_Cockey on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 07:32 pm:

If someone is looking for a project reproducing the 1915/16 horn push button switch would be great if it could be done at a reasonable price. The plastic button is currently available but not the rest of the switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David_Cockey on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 07:37 pm:

It's very likely some of the '15s which came from the factory with a bulb horn were later "updated" with a magneto horn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 08:01 pm:

Here are a couple of pics of a NOS '15 mag horn button. The first is the complete assembly, and the second shows the components. I will use this switch on the Coupelet I'm building. It was made by the Garford Mfg. Co., Elyria, Ohio, USA.

horn button

hb2

The button itself and the body that holds the contacts are made of bakelite or something like it. I polished the button and repainted the outer shell, which was painted black originally.

As for the placement of the switch on the column, the mounting screw holes are 1-5/8" o.c., and the top one is 3/4" below the pin that secures the quadrant to the steering column. There are 4 "flat" sides to the column, and the switch is pretty much centered in the upper left one.

Trent has sent me Ford's records for Coupelet production, and he says that all Coupelets were equipped with mag horns (part of the 10,000 John mentioned above, no doubt). The Coupelets produced for the 1915 model year were made only in Dec. '14 through Feb. '15. I don't have the number of them produced for '15 in front of me, but it seems that it was about 1,100. So there were about 9,000 other (non-Coupelet) '15 T's which came with mag horns; the rest of production presumably had bulb horns. My guess is that all the Sedans had them as well since they were "fancy", but I have no proof of that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:50 pm:

Mike I have one just like that and I'll offer you a heads up that in it's present condition it will not work. You need to add a ground strap to the ground terminal and mounting screw.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:35 pm:

Uncle Jack -- I have another (used) one with the ground strap you mention. I figured this one was supposed to use a separate wire for the ground.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:54 pm:

A small strip of copper is all you need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:06 pm:

Mike,
I don't have mine handy, but I think one of the contact screws has a metal tab that rubs the inside of the metal cover to provide the ground.
Glen,
Most of the late '15 and '16 models used this horn button. However, the horn was not that loud (main reason the louvers were added to the hood, not for cooling as many think) so many folks bought an accessory hand operated Klaxon type horn. Also, the magneto horn only worked while the engine was running! (and above an idle too)
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 11:18 am:

Guys: If any of you guys need the button for the '15-'17, we make them, and they can be purchased through Langs or Snyders.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David_Cockey on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 11:47 am:

Larry, do you make the "plastic" button, or the entire assembly?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Samuel on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 03:15 pm:

There is a smaller brass bodied button that was used as well. Has anyone seen one before?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 11:24 am:

David: We are only making the button at this time. We also make all of the buttons for all of the years, including a complete twist switch used from 1918-1922, less the metal housing. All of our buttons are guaranteed to be exactly like the originals. We can also recondition the 18-22 units using your old parts.


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