Steering geometry

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Steering geometry
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A Woods on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 10:54 am:

I think I remember reading a thread that discussed steering geometry and the use of mismatched spindles on a different year T. I have a set of pre 26 spindles that have been modified with metropolitan hydrallic brakes that I wanted to use on a 26 T. Will this combo work, or will I experience abnormal tire wear?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 11:26 am:

You will need to beef up the radius rods (wishbone). The main problem with front brakes is negative caster. Even the Model A which had front wheel brakes did not lock up the front wheels. The back wheels locked and the front wheels got tight but did not lock. If the axle rotates so that the bottom of the axle is behind the top of the axle the wheels will pull very hard to one side or the other and whip the steering wheel right out of your hands. This would be especially true if you have an early model with the wishbone above the axle. So, you need to strengthen the wishbone if you use front wheel brakes.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard G Goelz on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 11:33 am:

Terry,the spindles will work just fine,the only thing you will be doing is raising the frame about 1" as far as the brakes ,listen to Norman.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By aaron g on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 11:46 am:

I believe the axles are the same for all years.
I use Chevrolet spindles on my '26 touring but I have known of several T's with wrong year spindles. Of course they should be matched.
The Metropolitan brakes are quite small (I think same as Sprite) but a better radius rod system is a must.
I have a set of Met brakes on earlier ('25) spindles that I have not used because I never got around to getting a good set of radius rods.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 02:07 pm:

Terry -- The pre-'26 spindles have twice as much camber as the '26-7 ones, so your tires will wear more on the outside.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 04:27 pm:

It would be easier for your machinist/welder to use those spindles as patterns, and get a pair of Met backing plates and modify a pair of '26 spindles. You can sell the ones you have and recover the expense.

While you're shopping for parts, you can buy a pre-'19 axle with early perches and wishbone, then weld a late wishbone to it, as I did. Works good; stops like a modern car.

What are your plans for the rear? For my next project, I will try to stay with stock rear brakes, actuated by a slave cylinder. When they handle only 20-30% of the load as before, they should be good.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A Woods on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 12:22 am:

Well, all but Mike, say there will be no abnormal tire wear. Only Mike says there is a difference in camber with the early spindles. I had planned to use these brakes on a heavy fordor sedan for safety purposes when touring, not on a speedster. The car has a Ruxtell and will probably get driven some in hilly/mountainous areas. I have a pair of early spring perches and an early radius rod which I planned to use, along with a modified late radius rod, mounted below the axle and attached to the early radius rod, above the axle. I already had that problem covered, however, if I am going to be wearing out tires faster than I can mount them, would I be just as safe to sell or trade the early spindles and brakes and use Rocky Mtn. brakes on the rear with an equalizer hooking them to my trans brake?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 02:12 am:

Terry, I am by far no expert, but I have never heard that there was a difference in the camber in the pre '26 spindles and the later ones. Why would they be different? I'm not trying to be a smarta**, I'm just wondering. If they are different, then the toe-in(gather) would be different to take care of the wear issues, I would think. If the tires are wearing on the outside, then the toe-in is not correct. Am I missing something here? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.Woods on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 02:32 am:

David, Check the above posts to my original question. I wasn't the one who claimed the camber was different. I was just commenting on what someone use posted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 07:28 am:

Well, let's see......... Would you believe it if Fred Houston told you?

modeltgrg@cox.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 09:15 am:

If the camber is different, then the caster should be different, too. It's all about keeping the center of the tire under the extension of the spindle bolt. IIRC.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.Woods on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 10:09 am:

Mike, I appreciate your input and wasn't doubting what you or Fred Houston said. It seemed that everyone else is, though. I was just commenting on who posted what. I honestly am doubting whether I should use the pre 26 spindles; just sell or trade them for Rocky Mtn. brakes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 11:27 am:

Ask Bud & Ginny about Rocky Mountains on a sedan when the engine gives out going uphill.

Front brakes won't give much braking going backwards, either, so you need a real backup for backing up.

Humble Howard has fourwheel Metros on his centerdoor, which is for sale, btw.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel Keefer on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 11:35 am:

Rick,
Will the Metro mod work on pre 1926 spindles. Your installation is very neat. I have a full set of Metro brakes on hand.
Regards,
Noel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard G Goelz on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 11:41 am:

If the spindles change the camber then our suppliers should be notified, i sent in a set of worn out 26 spindles four years ago and they returned a set of 25 etc,the work fine and i have not noticed any unusual wear,i was on the CO/WY and Kanab tours as well as many weekenders over the last four years without noticeable wear i have Coker Garfield tires with about 7000 miles.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By aaron griffey on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 11:49 am:

The wider the tires the less camber you should have..
If you have too much CAMBER ON THE 21" BALOON tires they will not only wear a bit more on the outside but it will cause the car to pull to either side or wonder. Same if the front wheels are off-set too much.
If you had a hollow king pin and could look down through it you should have a line of sight going to the ground where the center of the tire should be. That is in relation to inside and out side of the tire print on the ground.
Also the more camber you have the more toe-in you need.
Too much caster and it will be hard to turn on fast curves in the road. The car will fight you to straighten out. Also makes it hard to steer when backing up.


Add a Message


This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Username:  
Password:
E-mail:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration