Hello everyone.

I'm piecing together a 1919 Roadster and have no patterns or old wood to base a rewood of the body on. I saw on an earlier posting a reference to Jennifer Miller's Oregon address as a source for a set of Mel Miller drawings and wrote her. Unfortunately my inquiry was returned as not deliverable. Does anyone have a crrent address for contacting her about purchasing 1919 Roadster rewooding drawings? I'd rather not buy a kit since I've got a small woodshop and woodworking is really a part of my hobby and interest.

Or can anyone suggest another source for similarly detailed information to build an accurate body framing? The photos I've seen of other's roadster body frames really make it seem relatively easy to make but it would make it a lot easier to have access to accurate and authentic dimensions and jointery descriptions.

I'd appeciate any clues offered. Thank you.

Dennis-try Leon Parker at Ford 1914@BellSouth.Net 270-527-5843 He has rewooding plans 1914-1927

John, does Leon have the plans for all body types from 14-27 or just the Roadster?

Ken, his card says he has open cars from 1913-1927
Rick

There is an offer of wood drawings for the 1915 to 1922 Roadster offered now on E-Bay for $49.95 by Frank Lazzara, 5N441 Fairway Lane, Itasca, IL 60143.

Ken
I have the plans from 1913-1927 for the tourings and roadsters. The 1913 sets have not been completed yet. I do have a new set of drawings for the early 1915 tourings with the all wood seat frame construction. They would also work for the 1918-19 tourings that had the wood seat construction. This new set is almost done, just have to confirm some floor board measurements. The set of prints are 13 pages 18"x 24 and very detailed. I am looking for a set of prints for the 1926,27 roadsters. I will be doing a set of prints for the 1915 roadsters that have the all wood seat construction this fall. I will post a picture of the new set of drawings Thursday. Leon
ford1914@bellsouth.net

That set of prints is missing the door wood drawings. He puts them on ebay all the time and says the door wood drawings are not avalable. Guess what, when you have all the complete drawings and details you get door wood drawings. Leon

Thanks Rick and Leon. I just sent a query for my 25 Touring. (Late Touring, that is.)

Leon,
Is the 1915 Roadster body wood design compatible with the post 1917 changes? What modifications are needed to the 1915 make a convincing 1919 Roadster body framing? Thanks, Dennis

Dennis
The wood construction from (1915-22) roadsters and the (1915-20) tourings are the same except the early 1915 with the all wood seat frames. No modifications are needed for the 1919.Ford had about five venders making bodies. There was some construction differences. If look a the Ford body parts books he asked for the body number to get the correct part made by that vender to fit that car. Leon

I'll add that I coincidentally "discovered" Mr. Parker about 2 weeks ago, when I needed wood drawings for a '23 roadster. I had been given his name some months ago (thank you Hap Tucker), but failed to follow up. I just got back to this part of the restoration and decided to see if the email address I was given was still any good...it was.

I just rec'd the drawings. Very quick delivery, and am very satisfied with the price and quality of the drawings. I'd say that dealing with Leon Parker will be a very satisfying experience, if it is anything like mine.

Leon,
Please correct me if I'm wrong but, currently you don't have 1915 to 1922 roadster wood construction plans available? They'll be ready by Fall?

Or are the Fall roadster drawings a revision? If so are the newer drawings coming out in the Fall worth the wait? Is the difference only in seat construction? Are there other improvements or features with the newer drawings?

By the way Scott, thank you for the comments on Leon's work and service. Very reassuring.

Are the drawings CAD or manual works? How many sheets come with the roadster?

Thank you.

Dennis
I do have the 1915-22 roadster plans. The 1915-22 roadster plans have six pages 18 x 24". I have a new set for the early 1915 tourings with the all wood seat construction that will be done within a week. Just need to verify the front and rear floor board measurements. I have my original floor boards , but can't get to them right now to verify the measurements. The 1913 prints will not be done till the end of year. The early 1915 roadster prints with the all wood seat construction is the one I will have done in about two months.
I am still looking for a set of plans for the 1926-27 roadsters. Leon

Just a follow up. When you buy my prints I will help you with any questions that may come up with your wood construction restoration or anything else that may come up on your Model T.
Thanks. Leon

Hi Leon,

This is my first post on the Model T Ford Forum… I'm sure there will be many more.

Based on the forum it looks like you have been able to help out many folks with your re-wooding plans. You are wonderful for creating these drawings.

I have what I believe is a 1924 Model T Touring car, it has been in the family for a little over 30 years now, passed down from my uncle and still in pieces. I was told many years ago the car was a 1924. I understand that there are some differences regarding wood in several areas, but that for the most part the 1923-25 touring cars were about the same.

I am interested in purchasing your plans for my touring car, it is way overdue for a full restoration. I will try to explain what I have. (I checked the Fordwood website to help identify the year)

Uses the high radiator
Uses the belt rail around the front and back seats
Uses a heavy wooden cowl rail
Metal rear end sill
Wood sills measures 74" long
Metal stiffeners in the seams between the back panel and quarter panel.

Let me know if you need more information to identify the year, and please contact me if you can supply the plans.

Also, Does anyone know of a good quality, reputable wood kit supplier ? I’ll be needing the entire kit to get started.

Thanks,
Craig

Leon,
I was just wondering if you will ever have re-wooding plans for the 1909-12 bodies.

Speaking of body wood plans, I had a set of 15-22 roadster plans I just sold. They were an original set of Mel Millers plans. I was going to have a them copied for a friend and found out they are copyrighted. I didnt notice the copyright mark on them. The printing and blueprint companies here in town wont copy any copyrighted material because of the copyright law. Of course anything is possible these days but the blueprint companies are being more careful than they use to be. Just thought you folks would like to know.
John

John

Just because an old document has copyright, doesn't mean its illegal to reproduce. A copyright has to be keep current with renewal fees to the US Patent and Trademark Office. Copyrights are good for 28 years.

Sometimes, persons put "C" on their work and claim 'copyright' but never actually file, register the item and pay the fee to the USP&T office, so those things aren't covered anyway.

For example, if a doc was copyrighted in 1981 and was not renewed, then the copyright expires in 2009 and can be reproduced by anyone.

Copyrighted before 1923
Books copyrighted in the US before 1923 are now in the public domain; their copyrights have expired and it is legal to copy such works.

Copyrighted 1923-1963
Books initially copyrighted in the US from 1923 through 1963 are still protected by copyright law if the initial copyright was renewed. The initial copyright term was 28 years and the renewal was 67 more years (formerly only 47 years). For example, a book initially copyrighted in 1923, and renewed, will pass into the public domain in 2019 (i.e., 1923+28+67+1).

Rick
On 1909-12 bodies I would draw up a set if I had a body that is in poor condition to use as patterns. The body would have to come all a part to do this. I just completed a set of drawings for the early 1915 tourings with the all wood seat construction. A set has 13 pages 18"x 24" and 40 pages of details. I am trying to do the 1913 touring next.
Craig, I hope you got the e-mail this time.
Leon

Leon,I would be interested in a set for the 13 touring.

For Leon – thanks for all your excellent efforts to provide the rewooding plans. I know they have been and will continue to be a great help to many. And they will help put a few more Fords back on the road with the original style bodies that would probably not make it without those plans. Thank you.

For Dennis – I think you will find Leon and his plans extremely helpful. A 1919 roadster or touring car body takes a little extra care when ordering the wood plans. During 1918 – 1919 some but NOT all of the body makers who were supplying open car bodies to Ford went back to using the wooden seat frames (front for roadster and front and back for the touring cars). Please see the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/37630.html that shows both the metal front seat frame and the wooden front seat frame. It shows a touring front seat section, but the concept is similar. If all the wood is eaten out of the wooden seat frame, the seat springs will sit on the gas tank. If all the wood is eaten out of the metal seat frame – there will still be a metal channel to support the seat spring. (And yes if all the wood is gone from the wooden seat frame then usually the other body wood is gone also – but I am trying to help convey what to look for). See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/87388.html for Michael Materazzi’s 1916 wooden seat frame 1916 roadster – it shows many of those details. As Leon pointed out – the early wood seat framed 1915 plans should be very close to the 1918-1919 wood seat framed cars. Just let Leon know which type you have. If you are rebuilding / rewooding you could actually change that seat frame to ether style, but I would encourage folks to keep it in the original style if they can reasonably do so.

For Craig – in general the high cowl / high radiator [ same one was also used on the 1926-27 cars] were considered by Ford as 1924-1925 models even if one was produced in calendar year 1923. Similar to the current 2010 mdoel cars that are now or will be soon available during the fall of 2009. For high cowl information see the illustration comparing the low cowl the high cowl at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/23821.html

For all of us just a reminder that Ford made lots of minor changes over the years. You can put a 1925 rear touring section on a 1915 touring – it will fit – but it looks strange –and the body molding and some other things don’t line up correctly etc. It will have the wrong type of arm rests and the top rest will come out of the side of the body rather than down from the top of the seat etc. Note also that Canadian Fords are often a little bit different. The extra front door is a give away, but they continued the wooden front and rear seats longer than the USA and they had the lower all metal front seat and slanting windshield earlier than the USA while still continuing to use the old 1914-1915 style wood rear seat construction (see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/50367.html ) So please try to ensure that the parts you have are all from the same original body if possible – sometimes that is not possible. In that case try to get them all from the same year group and same body maker or at least the same year group and country they were made in. It will make putting the puzzle back together much easier. See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/32458.html and scroll down Phil Mino’s excellent explanation of what happens when we mix the wrong parts from various years.

Thank you all for supporting our hobby. If anyone has some plans or dimenisions etc. for those 1926-27 Roadster wood--- please send them to Leon.

Respectfully submitted,
Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter, SC.

Jack
I have not started the 1913 plans yet. I hope to start them this fall. I have a set of plans that are full size drawings and have to get them down to easy size to work with. The full size drawings will cost to much to reprint. When you roll out the full size prints you can get lost real easy with them. I would like to get any 1913 original wood parts to work with also. Thanks. Leon

Thank you Hap for your advice and comments. I saw a sample of Leon's work on another thread and am impressed by the level of detail. It looks like a step up from the old Mel Miller drawing samples I've already seen. I also appreciate that Leon's drawings appear to be manual works. I use to work at an architecture firm many years ago as a part time job I held while I was in college and while working with the architects (who did historic preservation) I was exposed to samples of original 1920's era architectural drawings. As an architectural assistant I dabbled with CAD renderings of background vehicles. I used the CADvance software to do the "entourage" work (background scenery) for the architects. The point I'm wanting to make is I appreciate the artistry and personality that go into manually drafted work over what can be done on CAD. In fact, I'm relieved that Leon's work is manual and not CAD.

Leon, Judging from your comments I've been monitoring on the MTFCA forum (comments that you've made in response to the questions of many of us restorer/hobbyists) I think it shows that your efforts to document the wood structure on the various body types are truely a labor of love for the hobby and the model T. I do intend to follow up with a e-mail to you later to order a set of your drawings. I think I know the problem I've been having in getting my earlier inquires off to you and will have it resolved soon.

I also want to express my appreciation to the MTFCA for this incredible web-site and forum. The discussions held here are incredibly informative and fascinating and do wonders toward supplimenting my interest in the model T and has done wonders in motivating me to move forward with my reconstruction of my 1919 (wannabe roadster).

Leon
Thank you for getting back to me about the plans in your email, I look forward to seeing your work and getting started on my project, it's been long overdue... I feel much more confident moving forward since I will have good foundation to start from and it is very much appreciated.

Hap
Thanks for your advice and the links you provided to other messages, there is quite an archive and a wealth of knowledge on the MTFCA forum. I did a little more digging and found that based on the front fenders, high cowl, high radiator configuration it is closer to the 1924 touring as you stated earlier. I do know that the parts came from several cars but they are fairly consistent. The state of Georgia recently changed the rules for titling and registering older vehicles so I will build the car and title it as the 1924 Touring.

Thanks to everyone for the help... :-)
Craig

Leon,
Congratulations, and thanks, on the great work you are obviously doing to assist enthusiasts in their pursuit of our hobby! I live in Adelaide, Australia and I am restoring a 1913 ‘T’ Touring.
I now have only the body to complete and have virtually no existing framework to work from so I am very interested in purchasing a copy of your plans once they are complete. How are they progressing?
If I pay you the full amount in advance, is it possible to obtain the plans progressively, as you complete them?
This would enable me to make a start on fabrication whilst you are still working on the plans.
Regards, Graeme

Dennis,
I'm also restoring a 1919 Roadster that must be in about the same condition as yours. I have a set of Mel Miller's plans that I am using for the wood construction. I was able to do a decent job of constructing the wood following these plans. If you want to correspond about your progress or with questions, contact me. My e-mail address is "campbellre@verizon.net"
Bob