Timing rod too loose

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Timing rod too loose
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 08:18 am:

Can the spark lever (timing rod) be removed by simply pulling it staight out or is there a risk of messing up the steering gears? Isn't there riveting involved?

There is way too much play at the bottom of the spark lever. I tried wedging cottor pins in the small piece that connects the spark lever to the rod that goes to the timer, but it does not help.

I'm grateful got your help. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 08:34 am:

The small lever at the bottom of the timing lever should be riveted to it. Many times these have been removed and something unsatisfactory such as a cotter pin or shingle nail or what-have-you was used to replace a rivet that had been driven out. These undersized substitutes tend to wallow out the rivet holes allowing "slop" in the timing linkage.

Sometimes there's enough "meat" left in both parts that one can drill out the holes and re-rivet with a larger diameter rivet to fix the problem. Other folks have welded the holes up and redrill to the proper size.

Removing the spark or throttle lever requires driving out the two rivets that hold the steering gearbox in the column and pulling the gearbox out. You have to removed the tensioning spring located on the lever at the base of the column and also spread the tangs holding the rod into the gearbox (as little as possible since these are easily broken off. Lots of work.

Pulling the entire steeribng column with the rods out of the car and fixing this problem on the bench without disassembling the mechanism makes the job a lot easier in my opinion since the location of the repair needed makes it difficult to do the job under the car. You never seem to be able to get just the right position to back up a new rivet and peen it over.

I've also heard of some folks using JB Weld to hold the assembly together but I'm a bit leary of that cure myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Humble on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 08:44 am:

Bob,
Removing the levers from the steering column is a big deal. The spark and throttle rods will not pull out of the steering column without first removing the steering gear box which overhangs the levers. That will require removing the steering column from the car, removing the steering shaft, gears, and the two rivets that hold the steering box on the column. The steering gear box and rods will then come out as one piece. The steering gear box has tangs that wrap around the levers that have to be bent to allow the levers to come out, these are brass and are easily broken.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 09:39 am:

I tapped the rod and lever for a #4-40 screw on most of my Model Ts. One car had an elongated hole from being operated for years with a bent nail in it. That one had to be drilled out and tapped for a #6-32 screw to remove the excess play.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Calk on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 09:50 am:

Royce, to tap the rod and lever is seems as though it is a must to remove the column to accomplish this. Is that right? And...then is it a matter of letting the screw thread move inside the lever? I obviously have the same problem with slop in the rod and lever that Bob has.
Wayne


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By delta john on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 10:03 am:

I drilled a 1/8" hole through the lever & rod and drove in a 1/8" split pin which seems to stay tight.I have a question. With the spark lever on the quadrant fully retarded, what is the orientation of the small lever at the bottom? 12 o-clock?, 1 o-clock?, 2 o-clock? etc.I know that this orientation can be changed by heating and twisting the rod between the quadrant and the lever at the bottom, but would like to know the proper orientation as the amount of travel or rotation of the timer would be affected. Thanks. John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 10:06 am:

You tap the hole with everything together on the car, the 4-40 thread size removes all movement from the assembly when the screw is installed. I use Loctite on the screw. You could also use a nut if desired.

You do have to lay on your back on a creeper to do this. Wear safety goggles to keep the shavings out of your eyes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel Denis Chicoine, MD on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 10:12 am:

I appreciate the suggestions on this repair. I'm dreading it. The previous owner of my 26 coupe cut the lower half of the throttle rod off! It has a vaporizor with the throttle lever attaching to the rod higher up the rod. I'm putting an OF and high volume intake on it, and think I need the lower lever position to put the throttle linkage through the block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By coreywalker on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 05:59 pm:

If you could find another rod with what you need you could just weld it onto what you have with it in the car. A TIG welder would be best. Just bevel the end of the too short rod then cut the other the length you need and bevel it. Butt the 2 up and tack them, clamp something there to keep them straight than weld around them and grind smooth. TIG welding doesn't produce all those sparks and slag so doing it right there would be o.k.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel Denis Chicoine, MD on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 09:01 pm:

I purchased the new rods from one of the suppliers, but I also have a couple of steering columns from, I believe, pre 26 cars. I got a lot of "spare parts" when I purchased my wire rims. The new ones are pretty, but butting a piece of another against the cut one and welding it would sure be easier. I may give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By coreywalker on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 09:58 pm:

If you need the spark rod from a 26-27 column to weld on I have one I could cut off and send you for the postage. I could cut it above the spring say 1 inch from where it goes into the column, then after you weld it you replace the sring there and it hides any grind marks. I have a column and those 2 rods and the gearcase are about the only salvageable parts on it. The tube has a monster weld on it, plus it was crooked when it was welded. You could slide it up through the bracket, then it would still have the factory rivet holding the spark rod arm at the bottom. E-mail me if you want it and I'll work on getting it free, it's rusted up inside the bottom bracket but it'll come free surely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel Denis Chicoine, MD on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 10:09 pm:

I appreciate the offer, Corey. I may have a column in my shed. I'll take you up on the offer if I don't.
Noel


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