Lead test for babbitt

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Lead test for babbitt
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 10:44 am:

The paint department of the hardware store has(Lead Test Kits). I can glean babbitt out of old punch presses and other machines at the local scrap yard, paying 18 cents a pound. Takes about an hour to get 20 pounds. I keep the bearings seperate until I test for lead. Any with lead I give to a buddy for ammo. The test will detect lead at 2% or more and sence I only do this as a hobby I feel prety safe. rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:03 am:

PreTTy Thrif-T .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:15 am:

Bob
tell me more about this lead test kit. I have a bunch of ingots of indeterminate babbitt. Maybe this will give me some direction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 02:54 pm:

Be aware that babbits for Ford did not have lead but are tin-based.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Gelfer on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 03:11 pm:

Why the worry? I don't think anyone is going to be ingesting any babbit any time soon. Your engine well not get lead poisoning either. Yeah, I know the EPA outlaws it now, but who is going to be harmed if you use lead in your babbit? Are there any other reasons not to use it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 03:22 pm:

Well - tin based babbit is better suited for automotive applications. The leadbased are too soft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 08:06 pm:

Isaac Babbit died in a sanatorium or "nut house." some people believe he went mad form lead fumes, as he did experiment with many other metals. He was a goldsmith and later invented britannica.

Babbitt is now a genaric term that covers a whole class of metal alloys, one of which is mostly lead, but no longer used.

There is a great deal of Babbitt information to be found on the Internet. Here is a primer. Isaac Babbitt, inventor and manufacturer; invented a journal box (for enclosing train axles, ball bearings, and lubrication), U.S. Patent #1252, July 17, 1839. His suggestion of the bearing alloy was more important than the invention itself.

Babbitt, in present-day usage is applied to a whole class of silver-white bearing metals, or "white metals. These alloys usually consist of relatively hard crystals embedded in a softer matrix, a structure important for machine bearings. They are composed primarily of tin, copper, and antimony, with traces of other metals added in some cases and lead substituted for tin in others.

Ford "Babbitt" wasn't Babbitt at all. It was what was called "heavy pressure metal" and the chemical composition differed from the originally Babbitt. The material used by Ford had a composition of 86% tin, 7% copper and 7% antimony. The alloy known as "genuine Babbitt" is composed of about 85% tin, 7% copper and 8% antimony. Because of the high cost of tin, there is a more widely used Babbitt metal which is composed of 85% lead, 5% tin, 10% antimony and 0.5% copper. The latter is not suitable for high speeds or heavy loads.

A common "Government Genuine Babbitt" is composed of 89% tin, 7% antimony and 4% copper. This is the best Babbitt to nearly approximate the old "heavy pressure metal", and the stuff is NOT CHEAP. No doubt, there are many various in-between alloys loosely termed "Babbitt" metals. The element ratios used in "Babbitt" alloys impart different wearing characteristics with different ratios.

Temperature is more important to a good bearing than composition. Babbitt over-heating, when melting and pouring will "burn" it and the result will be a brittle bearing.

The Babbitt that is no longer available would be, if there was a market for that metal ratio and that was the best metal you could get.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 08:09 pm:

The one I use the most is; Lead Check, by Homax Products Inc. I get them at Ace Hardware. Pretty easy directions and you get 2 test for $6 and change. You only have 2 minunets once break the viles so you need to have your ducks in a row. Call me with questions at 903 824 1949,Bob. A


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Vagasky on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 10:38 pm:

test


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Vagasky on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 10:48 pm:

Bob, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but unless the "babbit" you are getting from those machines is correctely analized, you could be using Cerrobend. See attached data sheet. I use cerrobend for making male and female low production stamping dies and dollys especially handy for working brass headlite rims and the like.
The babbit bars pictured I got from the recycle yard, they were mixed in with other scrap lead products. I paid about $22.00 for them.
\image


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Vagasky on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 10:49 pm:

Sorry can't figure out how to post pics


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 01:55 am:

Bob,
Use the factory Pinch bolt. Your boring will be more accurate.
Dean Yoder


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 08:20 am:

Don, your almost there, type in; \ , image. {anything} Do not put the commas in, only the slash, the word image, and the Two upper case brackets. You need to put something in the brackets, a letter or word. Then click on Post this Message. The block will come up with; Your Image Here. click on; Post this Message. It should change screens to, a blank box with the word; Browse beside it. click on the Browse and select a picture. click on upload.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Martin, Sydney, Australia. on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 08:45 am:

anything


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 09:33 am:

aaa


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Billy Rose on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:09 am:

picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Billy Rose on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:11 am:

picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Billy Rose on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:17 am:

By golly it does work! :^)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 11:08 am:

photo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Vagasky on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 01:13 pm:

Bob, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but unless the "babbit" you are getting from those machines is correctely analized, you could be using Cerrobend. See attached data sheet. I use cerrobend for making male and female low production stamping dies and dollys especially handy for working brass headlite rims and the like.
The babbit bars pictured I got from the recycle yard, they were mixed in with other scrap lead products. I paid about $22.00 for them.
cerrobend


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Vagasky on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 01:20 pm:

Bob, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but unless the "babbit" you are getting from those machines is correctely analized, you could be using Cerrobend. See attached data sheet. I use cerrobend for making male and female low production stamping dies and dollys especially handy for working brass headlite rims and the like.
The babbit bars pictured I got from the recycle yard, they were mixed in with other scrap lead products. I paid about $22.00 for them.
Thanks Bob, maybe I got it right this time
cerrobend


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Vagasky on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 01:23 pm:

Bob, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but unless the "babbit" you are getting from those machines is correctely analized, you could be using Cerrobend. See attached data sheet. I use cerrobend for making male and female low production stamping dies and dollys especially handy for working brass headlite rims and the like.
The babbit bars pictured I got from the recycle yard, they were mixed in with other scrap lead products. I paid about $22.00 for them.
cerrobend


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 01:57 pm:

When I pour babbitt bearings, I only use new, freshly alloyed babbitt that has never been previously melted. I don't re-use any of my scraps or cuttings. It is not worth taking the chance of putting out a substandard product.

Babbitting is a delicate procedure and there are so many circumstances that can lead to substandard quality bearings. The bearing metal will solidify with a crystalized structure if it is poured too cold, while at the same time it will rapidly oxidize and change its composition if it is too hot. Babbitt that has been melted and solidified a few times is substantially weaker than a new fresh alloy. The rate of cooling a bearing is important too, because the zone where the metal is neither liquid nor solid, but kind of slushy is actually where component parts of the alloy (mostly copper) will tend segregate to the surface. This means that if the bearing saddle is pre-heated a little too hot and therefore cools too slow, a percentage of the copper (which makes the bearing metal more durable) will segregate towards the mold where it is later machined off.

It is impossible to tell what kind of job the last guy that poured a bearing did, and even harder to know what type of bearing metal he used. Right now, there are about 11 different common alloys of bearing metal available from most suppliers, and back in the day there were even more.

I suppose good looking bearings can be poured from just about anything and they might even last a couple thousand miles, but don't you want more than just a "good looking" bearing? Wouldn't you prefer knowing for sure that your newly poured bearings that you have spent all that time on are of the best quality they can be? With enough new babbitt to pour every babbitt bearing in your engine only costing around $40 why wouldn't you want to use the best quality material???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, November 19, 2009 - 09:07 pm:

Hello, I just checked with a bearing metal supplier today and ASTM2 (the proper modern designation for what everyone generally refers to as "babbit") is around $10 per pound and "Ford Mix" is around $13.

It takes only about three pounds to pour an engine and rods so you are only talking about $30 to $39 per engine although you will usually have to buy a minimum of a 7 pound bar, but if you do one engine, you will do another eventually. Some suppliers only offer 30 pound bars.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration