Interesting photos and postings on another thread regarding whatever happened to the T-100 Model T project, the T-100 Model T's and casting molds. Please re-post and discuss on this thread for the benefit of those that did not see them in the other thread.

Why did the T-100 project fail? Was it only because of Firestone? Since several cars were made, it appears that most of the big hurdles had been overcome. Seems like, with all the Model T tire manufacturers out there, a glitch in the tire supplier could have been overcome. What is the real story. Jim Patrick

I think the issue with Firestone was that Ford was suing them over the 200 plus deaths of consumers who flipped their Explorers due to tire blowouts. It had nothing to do with the T100 project. The issue was that Ford was hemmoraging billions of dollars and had to cut a lot of nice things to try to keep the company from going under from the weight of lawsuits and settlements.

Another factor may have been the realization by Ford that use of the T100 cars would be restricted because they did not meet the applicable Federal safety and emission requirements. So the cars can only be used "off-highway" (such as on museum grounds).

The applicable Federal safety and emission requirements are those in effect when the vehicles are manufactured, not when they are designed.

If Ford had decided to restore/rebuild original Model T's then the situation would be different.

I don't believe T-100 failed. The project was a success in that it created several new practically identical copies of the Model T Ford that many continue to enjoy today. The number of Model Ts actually built by the project is of little consequence.

Every one of these cars were expensive hand assembled reproductions that could not have been sold for less than the price of a similarly restored Model T. I don't think there was ever any thought of this being an ongoing venture.

Years ago, I talked to the people producing the Shay Model A. They had to keep their production levels low to avoid some of the FMVSS clauses. Furthermore, they had to make sure their 2.3l engines met the emission requirements of the late seventies. If the T-100 would have been produced in substantial volume, I would guess that they would have to be updated to current safety standards just as the modern wood bodied Morgan cars have been updated with air bags and modern brakes.

These are my opinions and I do not presume to speak on behalf of the Ford Motor Company.

Since reproduction parts can be used to "restore" an vehicle, Ford could have used original frames and engines, then the T 100 would have been restorations. In any case, the T 100 Ts are interesting. I heard that the reproduction engine pans had to be replaced with originals.

Does anyone have photos from various phases of the T-100 project?

It would be great if the engine molds could be utilized to manufacture new engine blocks for the different years of the Model T, since, due to the ravages of time, deterioration and wear, there are fewer and fewer engines available as the years go by.

I agree with Darel. I'll bet there are loopholes that could have been utilized to get around the stringent regulations. Jim Patrick

I, too, heard that the reproduction engine pans were particularly difficult to make and that they are being replaced with originals, at least on the 3 or 4 of the T-100 cars driven at The Henry Ford. I think that the other 2 or 3 of the T-100 cars are used mostly for show or display and aren't driven much.

To get the real story about how the T-100 cars are holding up, ask Dave Lieplet or Ken Kennedy, the mechanics at The Henry Ford who are responsible for keeping them running.

Fordially, Keith Gumbinger

I found an old thread from the 2005 forum. See:

www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/24998.html.

In this thread, Hap contributed a link for an interesting atricle on the T-100 project. Jim Patrick

Does anyone know where the tooling for the T-100 engine block is and is there any possiblity it could be used to reproduce new blocks?

Is there a shortage of blocks?

I've been to a few auctions and have seen them by the dozens. they are usually missing crankshafts and camshafts. I've got 4 or 5 26-27 blocks just sitting. I understand the early blocks could be harder to find.

If you contact Guy Zaninovich at motoringicons@hotmail.com he can provide details on the T-100 project. He worked at Ford and was very intimately involved in the program.
Trent Boggess and Don Lang also know much about the project.
Ron the Coilman

I had read somewhere that there were plans to build 100 of these and offer them for sale. What I read went on to say that the lawyers got wind of that, and nixed it. Don't know if it's true, but I did read that.

I remember reading that they couldn't be licienced because they were new cars therefore subject to YOP DOT safety and EPA environmental standards.

The reason the T-100 project did not proceed is that the new cars would have to meet new car design and safety rules. That is why the cars that were built are only used off public roads. One hundred cars were planned (actually, I have heard 300 cars were intended but that is unsubstantiated!).
John Stokes

John
I was fortunate enough to have driven one of the T-100 cars through Cambridge, Massachusetts on public roads along with Guy Z.
Ron the Coilman

I drove the first car with Bruce McCalley and Guy Z along. Guy took it out and then gave each of us as turn at the wheel. It was just another T except it was a bit quieter than most. The front fenders shook on it just like original when we waited for a light.

I don't think exhaust pollution would have been a big deal since the original 1914 Model T that they used for initial testing was able to light off a small catalytic converter inside the muffler with ease according to Guy Z as I recall him telling it. I was surprised to find that Ford and Harley Davidson had been co-developing catalytic converters for some time together and one of the smaller HD converters was easy to hide in the muffler so that wasn't much of an issue as I recall. Guy said that most modern cars take a bit of time before they send enough heat to the CC in order to light it off but Lizzie did the job in no time at all. The main problem was Ford needed all resources for the Firestone fiasco so all non essential programs got curtailed. At least that was the story at the time. There was little doubt that we could have built the 100 cars as planned in the time allotted but it just didn't happen. The 6 that were built easily proved feasibility of the project. I made the dashes for all of them up to that point and most of the 1914 stuff I make was used on them as well. It was fun for awhile anyway.

T-100 Dashes hanging in the paint room at Fun Projects.

I rode in 1 of the T 100's when I went to Greenfield village in 03.It was strange to look over the car and not see any rust pits in sheetmetal in spots you may normaly miss in a restoration.There was No defects,just a smooth T.
Best I can remember the heads are drilled and tapped for a strange,kerosene heater type sparkplug since they lug and idle alot on the grounds.

Some observations - There is no way that T-100 could have met current emission standards with merely a cat in the muffler. In fact, having a cat along with a carburetor is a recipe for disaster. Modern engines are fuel injected for a reason. Converters are very sensitive in regards to what's being fed to them. Too much gas and you have something glowing red hot under your wood floor. Too lean and the thing turns into a kiln and ruins the substrate. You cannot rely on all drivers to adjust their Holleys right. Misfires can overload the cat as well. All the T100s have original ignition systems that can be fiddled with. If you have a cat, you need a fuel and ignition system that cannot be adjusted.

In regards to the transmissions, the gears were cut with a different tooth profile to run quieter. I too rode in one the day Mr. Edsel Ford handed the cars over to the Henry Ford and I marveled at the quiet low gear. Since then those gear sets have been replaced. The cars are currently running the modern spark plugs with no special thread. They do foul from time to time so spare sets are kept at the ready for a quick swap. The old plugs are then cleaned using a torch and the gaps are checked. All cars run ethylene glycol antifreeze without a sacrifical anode. All the Village cars have been refitted with starters and alternators with a discretely hidden starter button. I believe this was in the interest of safety. The spark advance is also physically limited. As far as bands, several different types have been used. Coils are periodically adjusted with a box that has a circular translucent screen where one can view spark quality. Yes, the oil pans have been replaced.

There were several CAD files created off the X-ray examination of the sample components. Those files are secure within Ford. All the tooling that Guy Z. and company boxed up remains in storage and as I noted in another thread, all 13 containers were thoroughly inventoried for possible lease to our well known parts suppliers. As of last month, the crates have not been moved.

Another factor in the project is the bodies. As I recall, they were made in Sweden and the source has since ceased production if Lang's and Snyder's catalogs are any indication.

These are my opinions and I do not presume to represent Ford Motor Company or the Henry Ford.

My carbureted Toyota pickup still has its original catalytic converter after 250,000 plus miles, and still passes California's tough Smog Check every two years. Cars with Carburetors have had catalytic converters since 1975..long before fuel injection became popular on American cars. these cat. equipped cars had adjustable ignitions and carburetors and ran (and run) just fine. i'd bet that a T could be made to run clean with a little more compression and a cat. converter, no problem. It sure as heck couldn't pass the crash test, though!!!

"Having a Cat and a carburetor is a recipe for disaster" "If you have a cat, you need a fuel and ignition system that cannot be adjusted".
I have to disagree with the above statements. I've held a Californa Smog license for 28 years, and I have to tell ya, when cats were put on cars in 1975, they were pretty much ALL carbureted, and they ALL had adjustable ignitions. My '83 Carbureted Toyota Pickup has over 250.000 miles on its original cat, and it has an adjustable carb and ignition. It passes California's tough Smog Check every time, too. I think a T could be made to run clean fairly easily with a little more compression and a cat converter. No way would it pass federal safety standards, though!!

Jeffrey, Please clarify because I don't know exactly how the Asian makes do it. Are you saying that you have to advance the spark on a Toyota manually as you're driving? Does the carb have a choke lever inside the cab along with a main jet adjustment? You don't have an electronic ignition system? After many years in the business, I guess I still have a lot to learn. Keep in mind that the 1975 cars had less stringent standards and in some cases a cat wasn't even necessary.

If a T can be adjusted to the point the exahust manifold turns red, you're going to raise havoc with a modern three way catalyst which the 1975 cars never had. When you're tested, you're tested to the year of manufacture standards. There's no way the vehicles you mention would meet the current standards.

This is a picture of our original 14 along side #4 of the T-100 cars at the Centennial in Richmond. I talked to Ken Kennedy at length about these cars. If you are able to contact him, he has the whole story. We rode in this # 4 when it was new. It was just about like driving in an original.
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If you lowered the compression of the 1975 Toyota to 4.2:1 (1914 Model T spec), then installed the Holley Model G carburetor, cast iron timer with manual advance, and tried to pass 2003 emission standards it would fail.

If you installed 1975 Toyota ignition system, then adopted the Toyota's OHC cylinder head and computer designed intake and exhaust manifolds, with the Toyota carburetor, the Model T engine would not meet 2003 emission standards either.

So Jeff I don't see where you are going with this. The point of the T100 project was not to build 1975 Toyotas.

Perhaps with just a touch of sarcasm, might I suggest that one simply ask one of the wankers who regularly show up at AACA meetings with "Model T's" and "Model A's" with fibreglas bodies, tube frames and Chebbie motors how they do it? They seem quite comfortable telling punters that their "antiques" are Fords, with no visible Ford parts at all, but licensed and insured as Fords

"The point of the T100 project was not to build 1975 Toyotas". It wasn't? What was I THINKING?
Sorry, gentlemen! I was merely pointing out that older, cruder vehicles with carburetors and adjustable timing once had catalytic converters, and they did function in their own limited capacity and clean up emissions. Sorry to step on any toes....

Jeff,

Older, cruder vehicles like your little 1975 Toyota pickup did not have to meet 2001 safety, liability and emission standards. Even if Ford had spent the money to make a T100 Model T meet 2001 (NOT 1975) emission standards, there would still have been no way to meet all the other 2001 federal laws designed to enrich lawyers and bankrupt auto makers while reducing liability for insurance companies and stupid people.

No toes stepped on, I am trying to explain what you are failing to comprehend in a polite and concise manner. I can keep this up all day if there is something else about this that is not obvious to you.

Royce, I wonder if a Watts clutch and a True-Fire would help pep up my "1975" Toyota? Maybe if I just add a little more ZDDP to the oil..........

Darn rare is the '75 Toyota that can still pass the smog check in Ca. these days.
My '82 does but not without new everything ignition and the timing retarded a couple of degres and the catalytic converter good and hot.
That's number one reason there are so few old toyotas left.
I don't think the compression ration on a model T was quite up to 4:1.

Thanks for the support, Aaron. My Toyota is actually a 1983 model, as I stated originally. It morphed into a 1975 model during the great debate. Has an Oxygen sensor and everything. But they can't all last forever. Thank goodness we can still drive our T's!

My recollection is that at one time some of the T's in Greenfield Village may have had heads drilled for 7/8-18 spark plugs (same size as Model A's). This was to enable use of readily available Champion spark plugs (W89 and W95D) with very long electrodes which are very foul resistant. Those spark plugs were originally used in industrial engines.

I know I mentioned a long,heater plug I saw used in at least 1 of the T's at Greenfield because I talked to the fellow cleaning it with a torch.THere is a chance it was used in the TT wrecker they have there,aint sure.BUT I do know SOMETHING T related runs on a strange plug made for a heater up there.