Used rear axle bearings

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Used rear axle bearings
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 04:47 am:

I recently purchased the late Pete Cosner's '27 depot hack. I brought it back from Long Beach and immediatly had Steve Tomaso in Milton, WA. give it a "going over" to acertain any immediate concerns regarding safety. Steve determined that it was in pretty much as good a shape as it looked, with only a couple minor concerns. One item that Steve recommended was that the Ruckstell rear end was in good shape except that it has had one outer rear axle bearing replaced with the new "repop" solid roller bearing. In addition to Steve's recommendation that the "repop" solid roller bearing be replaced with a good used original type Hyatt roller bearing, I have learned a lot about the subject from this forum.

Accordingly, I have come across a number of used original type Hyatt roller bearings with the spiral spring type rollers. I have "miked up" quite a few of them and I am now in possession of three used but good original Hyatt spring type roller bearings that each have all rollers that measure .498.

I originally cleaned each of the bearings up with kerosene and dried them off prior to "miking" them up. In handling the bearings today, I noticed that there is some sort of dry, black, flakey particles that come out of the bearings when I stand them on end and lightly tap them on my workbench. The stuff must be coming out from inside each of the rollers. What the heck is this black flakey stuff, and more importantly, what kind of cleaning solvent would be good to soak these bearings in to be sure they're perfectly clean? I'm going to have Steve Tomaso look these bearings over and have him pick whichever he thinks is best and have him install it in place of the solid roller "repop" bearing that's in the rear end of my depot hack now, but I'd like to think that it'll be a good, used but CLEAN bearing that is completely free of whatever this black flakey stuff is. I'm thinking acetone or maybe brake cleaner would clean this stuff out. (???)

Anybody else had a similar experience with used Hyatt axle bearings and maybe know how to be certain that these bearings are totally cleaned out?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Edward J. Baudoux on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 08:15 am:

The black flakey stuff I have seen inside old rollers is dried out gear lube. Soaking in fuel oil, and cleaning with air pressure did the trick for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 08:36 am:

A coffee can full of lacquer thinner works pretty well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 10:34 am:

Its darn near impossible to get those buggers squeaky clean. All the above advice is good. Do the best you can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 12:09 pm:

Somebody mentioned using a paint shaker a while back to clean parts. Never tried it myself, but sounds like a good idea. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 01:36 pm:

Ultrasonic baths work well also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 02:16 am:

Some great suggestions, and if, as Edward says, "the black flakey stuff" is just dried out gear lube, I'll do as Richard says, and just "do the best I can". At least it doesn't seem that dried out gear lube would be too harmful to the bearing if in fact I can't remove it all 100%. I have a considerable quantity of lacquer thinner so I'll start with your suggestion Royce; thanks a lot guys,........harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 02:29 am:

On the subject, what grease do you all like for redoing this type of roller bearing. The mtfca video shows Milt Webb preffers old style long strand stuff. I used it and found it really looks like a huge wadd of snot. Sure strings. Seems like it should do well here due to low stress and not much heat.

What say all of you?

Erich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joncrane on Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 07:32 am:

Where can you get the long stringy wheel bearing grease? I just bought some kind of super wheel bearing grease that is red and was more like vasoline. I used it but it was not what was expected nor what I wanted. thank you jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 12:16 pm:

A heated ultrasonic parts cleaner would work best. If you can find someone that has one, you could probably have a bunch cleaned for the price of lunch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dena & Dennis Gorder on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 12:20 pm:

Maybe I am doing it all wrong, but I use synthetic wheel bearing grease in mine. I haven't had a problem yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 02:48 pm:

I don't know if this makes sense or not, but I like to use marine type wheel bearing grease on Model T wheel bearings; in fact, I use it for all Model T wheel bearings and for just general chassis lube. I buy it at West Marine stores, but any marine supply store would have it. It just seems to me that if it's designed for boat trailer wheel bearings that are subjected to total immersion in salt water, it ought to be great for Model T Fords, especially for so many Model T chassis points that are more exposed to the elements than on modern cars. This marine boat trailer wheel bearing grease seems more "stickey" than most other grease and maybe that is one of it's qualities that make it good for boat trailer wheel bearings. I think I remember from a comment in this forum that Seth Harbuck uses it too.

By the way, Tim Foye's description of that "mystery" grease he has reminded me of marine boat trailer grease. Maybe it is the same stuff or similar. We on this forum helped Tim with a name for that "mystery" grease, but I can't remember what the final selection for a name for it was.

For what it's worth,..........harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 03:48 pm:

Harold, That marine grade grease makes a lot of sense. I used the long strand stuff in the rear bearings due to Milts recommendation but I used a modern high press. lithium grease everyplace else. I do not like how thin it is and as I can get around to it, I will likely change to a thicker grease like the marine stuff.

Here is a pic of the long strand grease on my rear beating install. bearing snot


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 03:52 pm:

UUMMMM, thats "bearing" install.

John, most auto supply houses have that grease. Just look for "long strand" and not high temp for disk brakes. Usualy only for drum brakes.

Erich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:31 pm:

I tried some long stringy wheel bearing grease and was not satisfied because it was very stiff and created a lot of drag. It didn't stop grease leaks either. Maybe there are different types???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 07:41 pm:

Jack Daron-Indy - Coincidently, a Harbor Freight Tools sale flyer (actually a sales coupon booklet) came in the mail today, and they have an "ultrasonic cleaner" on sale starting now and until Christmas. So, I bought one; $27.95 I think it was.

While in the store, I couldn't find a clerk that knew what kind of solvent or cleaning solution to use in the machine. I opened the box to get the instruction manual that comes with the machine out, and I read it twice, and it refers only to warm water, and says not to use any kind of flammable liquid in the machine, but nowhere does the instruction manual say WHAT TO USE besides lukewarm water,....???

Finally, after locating a manager in the store, he found some little bottles of some sort of white powder that's labled, "Ultrasonic General Purpose Cleaning Powder", and that stuff sells for $6.00 per bottle. So of course, I bought a bottle of that stuff too, even tho' I could find no reference to any kind of cleaning powder" in the instruction manual. (sure would like to know what it is as it looks and smells just like automatic dishwasher detergent;???)

So, my question Jack, is......what kind of cleaning solution do you use for your "ultrasonic cleaning machine"? Or do you have the Harbor Freight Tools version and a bottle of the same powder? Or, does anybody else have any suggestions that might work better than this Harbor Freight Tools white powder that looks like dishwasher soap???

In the meantime, I'll try to "ultrasonically" clean an axle bearing with this thing, and I'll letcha' all know how it works,....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Niedzielski on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:29 pm:

1) What measurements would a new old stock original Hyatt roller bearing have? 2) What is considered an acceptable amount of wear at first glance?

If a fellow does run into some really good ones, who is selling good quality axle sleeves either NOS or faithful reproductions that would hold up well?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:41 pm:

ED,typically they were 0.500 when new and most of us look for the ones in the 0.497-0.499 range. The hardened sleeves the suppliers sell should work for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:46 pm:

Harold,Those baths arn't explosion proof ,nor spark proof. I'd use a plastic container inside and some brake cleaner or laquer thinner. Cover the bath with some Saran wrap to prevent to many fumes from being ignited by an electrical spark.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 09:17 pm:

I use the best wheel bearing grease I can find at O'Reillys because its convenient. These bearings are not too fussy about grease as long as there is plenty there. After all they have lasted 80 years, most of the time lubricated with a grease much inferior to any made today.

I don't know what "stringy" grease is but the long fibre greases used for wheel bearings 50 years ago were not waterproof and quickly turned to soap in the presence of moisture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 10:40 pm:

Ed -- My recent experience is that with new repro outer sleeves and new axles, a bearing measuring more than .495 will not fit. Apparently either the axles or sleeves are made just a bit oversize. There have been previous discussions on this here on the Forum within the past year or so. Bearings measuring .495 are not too difficult to find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 01:05 am:

More important than diameter is the condition of the surface. Many of the small diameter bearings I have show indications of surface fatigue. If the bearing surfaces look good then I think you don't need to be too fussy about the roller diameter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 06:03 pm:

Mike: You will likely find everything fits as it should if before installing your new sleeve you run an engine cylinder hone in the bore of the axle housing very lightly just to remove the burrs that were raised when you removed your old sleeve. If the new bearing did not slip right in (if you had to "drive" it in), then you will likeley have premature wear issues. I have also found that most grease leak issues in a properly rebuilt axle are usually caused by over lubrication, especially if you have modern inner seals in which case, any grease you add has no place to go except out the outer felt seal and all over the brakes and eventually all over the wheel and tire. I advocate greasing the rear bearings real sparingly and pulling the rear bearings, cleaning, inspecting, re-greasing, and reinstalling them every season or two.


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