Fuel Line Material

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Fuel Line Material
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kidwell on Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 10:22 pm:

What types of fuel lines are acceptable, (Safe), for a 1926 Tudor. I would like to be able to use parts purchased from a local parts or hardware store. Currently, all components are stock with the exception of the actual fuel line which I want to replace.

Thanks, Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 10:46 pm:

I will say many will tell you to use a Steel brake line for fuel. I personally use 5/16 copper but have always been a maverik.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 10:53 pm:

Copper fuel lines, while easy to use and form, eventually develope dangerous stress cracks. I remember reading a thread on this forum years ago that coated steel tubing makes the best and safest fuel line. I did a keyword search and found the thread on the "Forum 2005", dated December 2007: www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/41405.html. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 12:02 am:

Autoparts stores sell pre-flared steel brake lines in various diameters and lengths. You just have to bend to suit, and buy matching fittings.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 12:55 am:

All T's left the factory with brass fuel lines. All T's - all years. I don't argue against steel lines nor copper either. I wonder which would occur first - rust and breakage of steel or age cracks in the brass. I honestly don't know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 01:15 am:

McMaster.com has brass tubing, but:


Type Brass Tubing
Metal Brass
Material Brass Alloy 260
Shape Single Line
System of Measurement Inch
Outside Dia. 3/8" (.375")
Length 6'
Low Temperature Range -99 to -1 F
High Temperature Range +101 to +200 F
Operating Temperature Range -40 to +200 F
Metal Bendability Not Bendable
Temper Half-Hard H58
Metal Construction Seamless
For Use With Air and Gasoline and Natural Gas
Shipped As Straight Length
Fittings Used No Specific Recommendation
Specifications Met American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM)
ASTM Specification ASTM B135

How would you use it in a T?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kidwell on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 01:16 am:

After reading the previous posts from Jim Patrick, I Googled steel brake lines and found this web site.

http://www.copper.org/Applications/automotive/hydraulic_brake_tube.html

It seems that there are a lot better brake line material now, encluding stainless, so you won't get the rust problem mentioned in the other thread.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timmy Pittman on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 02:35 am:

How about a hobby shop? I know they sell brass tubing. I would think being thin like that you could probably heat the brass and use long radius bends and you should be ok.

I know I found a picture on the internet that showed two long radius bends in a silver fuel line. The fuel line was already mounted on the tank.

Take a piece of copper tubing bend it to the correct radius and send it out for brass plating.

Last note on this, and I have people to argue this point..Route the gas line below the bulb of the carb and back up into the inlet...thus causing a trap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 02:40 am:

I used brake lines from napa and bent them with a tubing bender. Super easy. cut ends and used standard ford method of fittings(rubber instead of felt). Worked great. I did use a section of rubber fuel line in the middle to prevent fatigue due to engine vibration. This is a short run from cowl tank to carb on my 26.

Erich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 02:48 am:

I used the brass line that one of the vendors sells on the TT about three years ago, but instead of felt, I used rubber O'rings. Used a tubing bender for the bends,worked great for me. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 08:12 am:

I'm not too comfortable with brass. Anyone who has collected Edison phonographs with the witch's hat, brass bell horn has probably had the experience of the flared brass bells developing stress cracks, due to the stresses that developed when the brass was stretched and formed into that flared shape at the end of the horn. I would not want to risk the same thing happening to a brass fuel line that has been bent and formed and subject to intense and constant vibration. It is not something that should be left to chance, especially when dealing with the fuel system that runs right next to the hot exhaust system and engine, that, if not adjusted right, can get cherry red hot. Please be safe. If you are concerned with rust, stainless steel is probably the way to go. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 08:46 am:

I bought a 3 foot brake line that has the spring wrap around it. I cut the ends off and bent it by hand (the spring prevents it from kinking). When you get it shaped like you want, slide the spring off and toss it. I then slid the original brass nuts onto the tube but instead of using the felt packing I cut rubber hose and made rubber packings to be used in place of the felt. When it all goes together you have the original hardware secureing the line only with a packing that won't leak and that also affords some protection against vibration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard G Goelz on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 10:21 am:

On the 26 you only need about 12" of tubing ,so it probably doesn't matter a lot unless you are going to be judged then brass .
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 12:13 pm:

This post has been on here so many times, I can't believe it! John is right, they were brass, but I read somewhere recently that the brass was zinc plated. So if you want one that looks original, I would use brake tubing. I have a copper line I made on my '13, and has been on since 1962 and has never been a problem. I used ferrules too, and have had any trouble with them either. Use what ever you like. The bottom line is to get gas to the carburetor. I have a NOS gas line, and it is zinc or tin plated brass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 02:04 pm:

Larry, I don't understand what you mean when you complain that "This post has been on here so many times, I can't believe it!". I should think you would be glad there are new members that are not too proud to ask for help and advice especially regarding a subject as crucial and dangerous as the fuel system. Your flippant answer to, "use whatever you like", relays a sense that you really don't care anymore. Whether you think so or not, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things, as well as, a safe way and an unsafe way and judging by the many cases, sited by our members, of split copper tubing and close calls that could have and may have resulted in tragedy, my personal conclusion is that copper tubing as a fuel line, is surely the wrong and unsafe way to go. People are free to do what they want but they should at least be given the available options from which to make their choices.

No matter how many times you or I, as senior members, have seen a certain post, there are newer members like Mr. Kidwell, who raised the question, who have never seen it and it is for them that we revisit subjects and re-post threads that contain useful information from very knowledgeable and respected members from the past who have either moved on to other things or are no longer with us.

We should never make those that ask questions think that it is an inconvenience to repeat what we have said so many times before. That is what this Forum is all about and hopefully, there will always be new members we can help even if it means repeating ourselves 1000 times. Respectfully submitted. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 02:44 pm:

Ralph:

Original fuel lines were 1/4" O.D. and 3/16" I.D. There is plenty of flow with that size and making it larger just makes for a faster burning care if it snaps apart some way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lloyde Eckley on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 02:49 pm:

I just replaced one on my 26. $3.90 from the vendors, they have them also for 09 to 25 models, and all fittings, seals ect. I can't drive to my local hardware store for that amount, let alone wonder what length, diameter to get and will it work? Order the right stuff and be done with it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 03:26 pm:

my latest fuel line engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dena & Dennis Gorder on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 06:17 pm:

For shame!!!! Non original fuel line, air cleaner and fan belt! What will be next? Non original band linings?

Just kidding!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kidwell on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 06:45 pm:

The picture that Erich posted shows something I may have totally overlooked for safe operation. The picture shows a black hose coming out of the firewall behind the fuel filter. I do not have anything there except for an opening. Is this the fuel tank overflow? If so, how should I install a line and where is it routed?

Thanks, Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lloyde Eckley on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 07:48 pm:

I installed a repro one that a friend had. It looked like it was made from electrical conduit. It just drops down to below the hood shelf, and is there to drain off any fuel that spills or overflows when filling up the fuel tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 08:44 pm:

Non stock. But I like 3/8 brake line tapered to 5/16 to fit drilled out fittings. No more vapor lock & burn the tank dry. Only way to go on a driver with under seat tank.
Thanks, Trent & Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 09:00 pm:

Actually, it has original band linings. But they won't last forever.

Jim, that is a pipe that provides overflow from the "mote" around the fill opening of the dash tank on the 26+27 "improved" cars. This is a stock item available from Langs and probably others. My car didn't have it and the only reason I found out about it was from looking under the hood of another 26.

Of course the filter bowl is not stock but my original was very bad and costly to bring up to snuff. Besides, I like the fuel in the glass bowl.

Erich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Anderson on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 09:31 pm:

I used the McMaster brass material to make the line for my '14 touring. It IS bendable, and rather easily so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kent Greenhalgh on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 03:43 am:

After reading all above I'm almost afraid to post.
I hope nobody laugh's, but I use 5/16 rubber fuel line from Advance Auto Parts.I'm not getting judged I just like to drive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 09:32 am:

Ha Kent. No worries. Room for everyone. Just look at my non standard horn. Like anything else, there is more than one way do look at it and to do it.

Erich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:04 pm:

I stand corrected! I failed to realize that others don't read the forum everyday like I do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Jamison on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:20 pm:

Cunifer is a copper/nickel/iron alloy tubing popular for brake lines, especially in Europe. It bends easily (without special tools) and will not work harden (which is the problem with brass). I don't know if it will work for fuel lines, but I don't see why not if it works with brake fluid. It also looks nice polished up, and it doesn't rust. Check it out on the internet.

Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:50 pm:

Thank you Phillip. I looked up Cunifer online and it sounds very promising. I included several reports below:

www.vecom.nl/english/documentation/tb/TB-2005-05-eng.pdf.
www.brakequip.com/pdf/ezibend_2.pdf
www.cunifer.com/

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trevor Rayment on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 01:13 pm:

I just bought about 8 ft of 1/4" O/D Kunifer (Cunifer) pipe on www.ebay.co.uk. With this, of course you can use all your standard t fuel line fittings. It cost me approx $10 in your money. It bends easily, and has the durability of steel. I've used it for rigid brake pipes for years. It's very common here in the UK. Here's how the bit I bought was described.


KUNIFER BRAKE PIPE 90/10 CUPRO NICKEL 1/4" X 2.5 METRE CONFORMS TO BS EN 12449 SEAMLESS
100% ELECTRONICALLY & PRESSURE TESTED
GUARANTEED AGAINST THE EFFECTS OF WEATHER AND SEASONAL ROAD SALT
INTERNAL CLEANLINESS TO BS EN 12449
OUTSIDE DIAMETER 1/4ins - 6.35mm WALL THICKNESS 0.028ins - 0.71mm LENGTH 2.5 metres MAX WORKING PRESSURE 2250 PSI 155 bar

Regards
Trevor


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