1915 T it's alive !!!!! but a couple of question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: 1915 T it's alive !!!!! but a couple of question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 11:35 pm:

I just succeeded in starting my 1915 touring after probably many years of resting. I don't know precisely cause I bought the restoration project half completed from someone else.
after about 10 minutes the engine was turning pretty good but suddenly coolant was coming out from the radiator by the overflow tube (if I can call it like that) The rigid tube welded to the rad.
When I filled it up i've put around 12 quarts or 25 pints if you prefer. Did I put too much? or did the engine heat too much already? The fan was turning well. there were also a couple of coolant drops on top of the radiator, they came out from the cap.

Also when i was trying to start with the 6 volts electric starter with new battery, it looks like when the engine was making an effort to run, the starter was making a kind of noise and the engine was stopping. I had to stop starting and wait for the noise to stop a second to retry. Or by example if i shut the gas line and command the starter, it turns the engine very well.
Is it my starter that kind of slips?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 11:41 pm:

A brass radiator holds about 2 1/2 gallons or 10 quarts. It ,when it reaches temperature, will seek its own level,so I wouldn't worry to much about that. Otherwise,I'd pull the cover on the bendix and make sure you don't have a broken or twisted spring .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 11:59 pm:

ON the first item, yes you filled the radiator to the top, the T will find it's own level which is about and 1 inch or so above the water tubes. There should be a gasket under the cap.
On the 2ed item, sounds like the Bendix is out of order. I would pull the starter and check it out. You need to pull the Bendix off first before trying to pull the starter. If you don't you will mess up the windings on the mag ring. Take off the Bendix cover, don't loose the screws as these are odd threads. Bend down the tab on rearmost bolt retainer and take out the bolt. You may or may not be able to pull the Bendix right off or you may have to use a puller. Now you can un-screw the starter and remove. Next I would order the black service manual and read up on how to check and service the starter. While you are waiting for the book to arrive put the Bendix back on and check that it is spinning out to engage the ring gear and that the shaft is not bent. Then have someone turn the motor and check the teeth on the ring gear. If all else fails, send the starter out to get serviced, I would send it to someone that knows T starters not just your local starter repair shop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 12:38 am:

For the coolant issue, i had a new gasket for the cap and after the 10 minutes it turned, I was seeing a little fume or vapor coming up from the rad. cap

For my starter i'll have to check it myself cause i'm very far from anyone who could help me for that.
Thank's for all the details on this one. I'll check that in the next days next to the engine. English is not my first language so i did'nt get every detail yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 12:42 am:

We assume someone has installed a later engine as a 15 did not have an electric starter, except crank up front


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 01:04 am:

You're right, it has a 1917 engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Nugent on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 01:48 am:

I am new to this - but I thought the T did not have electric starter until 1919??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 08:46 am:

I checked with the engine serial # and gives me 1917


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 08:59 am:

Mark

That's correct, the first starter block didn't appear until April 1919 on all cars, although that starter block #T-400D1 was used as early as Dec 1918 on the Coupes and Sedans.

Lots of T motors got parts added by owners later to add the starter equipment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 12:32 pm:

Your starter problem could be a bad ground thus not having enough juice to activate the bendix. You might want to grind down to clean metal at the ground strap bolt hole for a better connection. I had a similar problem, but on the positive side, until I spoke with John Regan and explained the problem. Within seconds he knew the solution, he told me to take off my power switch in between the positive cable and the starter switch. Presto Changeo the starter worked like it never worked before. Just a thought for you to ponder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 12:56 pm:

Alain -- The change in the engine block during the 1919 model year was to accommodate the generator, not the starter. A starter can be added to a non-starter Model T by installing a later hogshead, since the starter mounts to the hogshead, not the block. (And as Dan said, this happened a lot.) So you may very well have a 1917 engine with a starter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lloyde Eckley on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 01:26 pm:

Alain, before you start looking for a problem, lets make sure you have one. It sounds to me like you are describing when the motor doesn't start, but the bendix disengages. At that point the starter is spinning and like you say, you have to let go of the switch and wait for it to quit spinning before you try again. This is normal and will happen sometimes, usually when cold. You will find that it won't happen much after you get the car running good. Hope this helps. Lloyde


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 01:58 pm:

Alain,

The earlier blocks can be fitted with a starter by changing some parts from the non starter car with the starter car (i.e. transmission cover (hogs head); flywheel - add starter gear; coil ring -- use the one with the slot for the starter, etc.) But they can NOT be fitted with the generator unless the block was the later design that had the place for a generator to be installed. You may want to check and see if the right front of your engine (same side as the carburetor) has a generator or a place for the gear driven generator to be run off of the timing gear.

1

Above is a photo from pg 35 May – Jun 1991 “Vintage Ford” (used by permission) showing the 1917 Rip Van Winkle engine compartment. Note it does NOT have a place for the generator to be installed and would look generally the same as a 1913- early 1919 non-starter engine block. You cannot add the standard 1919-1927 Ford Generator to this block – it does not have a location for it to be fitted.

2

Above is a photo from pg 27 Mar—Apr 1998 “Vintage Ford” (used by permission) showing an original unrestored 1925 engine that came with the generator block off plate and was on a bare bones car that did not have a starter of generator (or demountables either)

3

Above is a photo from pg 44 Jan – Feb 1980 “Vintage Ford” (used by permission) showing a 1926 engine equipped with a generator run off the front timing gear. That was the standard location form 1919 to 1927. Note Canada did produce some RHD cars with the generator mounted on the left side of the engine an powered by a belt until the RHD steering bracket could be redesigned to allow the steering column and the starter to both be on the manifold side of the engine.

If your block has the place for the generator, then most likely the block was changed at some point and the original 1917 serial number was stamped onto the new block to keep the car's number the same. Ford dealers were directed to do that when replacing a block.

And of course if it has a 1917 engine serial number it would not be the engine that came in a 1915 car originally. Most Model Ts purchased today often have parts from several years as different owners have either kept them driving “back in the day” or they had a different year part that would fit and used it so they could get the car going again after it was obtained after 1950 etc.
Not to worry -- any stock Model T Engine performs about the same in the cars and you will not notice any loss of fun while driving the car.

There is also a posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/116352.html?1259976948 titled “1918 Model T” and I listed several helpful links for new Model T owners – scroll down to the Friday, December 04, 2009 - 08:56 pm entry and I think you will find some of that information helpful also.

And of course – don’t forget to look for a body number and body maker letter on your car see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40322.html I’m trying to collect that data in hopes of helping develop a better way to figure out which 1915-1920 body panels fit which bodies ok and which ones should not be mixed.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 06:41 pm:

Lloyde, i think you got something, cause i tried many times to restart after its 10 minutes running and it turned very well. But i'll check that better when i'll work again on it in the next days and weeks. Thank'S
And thank's to you 'Hap' for great infos, it sure helps in many ways.
Thank's to all


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:51 pm:

If you follow what Mark said to do, after you take out the bolt from the bendix and pull out the bendix, you will find a keyway with a small woodruff key in it. The key is shaped like a semi circle. Be sure to find that key and install it back in place when you replace the bendix.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:26 am:

Thank's a lot again to all.
What a great forum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 05:53 am:

alain,

I didn't see where anyone mentioned advancing the spark timing after starting the car. Start the car with the advance lever (on the left side of the steering column) all the way up. Once it starts, pull that lever down about halfway and then reduce the idle speed with the lever on the right side.

Failure to advance the spark timing after starting will cause the engine to run hotter than it normally would.

Remember to retard the spark (push lever all the way up) before attempting restarting the engine!

Good luck with your new-to-you T.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 05:40 pm:

Thank's I new about the timing and the fact that I would have to advance the spark timing after start. I'm afraid that, when I let it turn it's 10 minutes, when it began spitting out coolant by the over flow tube of the rad,it was heating too much cause i saw a bit of steam coming out of the radiator cap. Like I said previously I have a new gasket there. I could tighten the cap a bit more but it's wings would have been aligned with the radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 07:26 pm:

alain, there is a rubber radiator gasket that is available from the vendors that will let you put the wings wherever they need to be and the cap will still seal. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:12 am:

Do you think it's normal that I saw a bit of steam coming out?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:27 am:

If a T does not steam, spit, leak water and oil something is wrong with it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 08:49 pm:

Alain,
I wouldn't be too concerned about the radiator for the moment because it sounds like we are talking about a situation where the car is sitting in one place running. The fan just barely pulls enough air across the radiator to cool the car sitting in one place.
Under these conditions, it isn't unusual to get a little steam vapor when you shut the car off.
Now, if you are boiling all the water out of the radiator when you shut it off, that's different.
Remember, once you start the engine, you must advance the spark too. if you don't, that will cause overheating.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By alain on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:25 pm:

I like your comment John! LOL
Thank's for the details Dennis, I swear I gave advanced to the spark after started.
To start : lever all the way up, when started completely down and I bring it back up a little bit.
I started a few different cars in the near past years and it was different. I'll get used to the T
I just want to take all the infos I have not to make an expensive mistake.


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