1926-1927 Steering gear to dash cover – two styles – was one early and the other later?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: 1926-1927 Steering gear to dash cover – two styles – was one early and the other later?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 05:29 am:

Another question that Dennis e-mailed to me concerned the Part #T3515 Steering gear to dash cover on the 1926-1927 cars (not the Fordor).

Dan Treace at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/72277.html posted the two pictures below:

1

The one above matches the illustration in the Price List of Parts

2

It appears that in addition to the Fordor having a different Steering gear to dash cover, that the 1926-1927 Coupes, Tudors, Tourings, & Roadsters had at least two different versions of that part #T3515. Does anyone know if they were both used throughout the production of if one was earlier and the other later? And if there was an early and late one, about when did it change? I would guess and it is only a guess, that the picture in the price list of parts was the earlier one

Respectfully requested,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 08:01 pm:

My 26 touring has one like the bottom photo. It was built in early 26 but has been redone and I don't know if it left the factory that way.

Erich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale L Myers on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 08:50 pm:

My October 1925 roadster has a bracket like the top photo.
My April 1926 Tudor has a bracket like the bottom photo.
Both cars are unrestored and all original as far as I know


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 08:59 pm:

Dale,Could you post a picture of your 25 column support?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale L Myers on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 10:08 pm:

maybe
bracket


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale L Myers on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 10:09 pm:

I'm still not sure how I did that


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 10:30 pm:

The top one looks like the 25, so it may have been earlier than the bottom one. I hadn't even considered the difference. My motto is if it fits, use it. If I have 2 which are different, I might try to find out which one was in use when my car was manufactured. I have the aluminum or zinc? door sills on mine and the stepped windshield posts as well as the step in the front door posts. My car was assembled from parts, so I am not sure what date of manufacture?
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kidwell on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 11:12 pm:

My Tudor, Chassis number 14727589, (February 1927 Production) has the bracket pictured in the top photo with white Firewall.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 12:05 am:

All – thank you for checking and posting. Please be sure to let us know if you think the car was originally that way such as Dale’s Oct 1925 and Apr 1926 or if it is unknown etc.

Jim – if you believe your 1927 probably has the original bracket – that would indicate they were both used over the years. Would you please let us know if you think it probably is the original bracket for your car or not.

And of course a sample size of 3 is not as large as you would like to base theories on.

Thank you all for helping track this down.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kidwell on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 12:15 am:

Hap, My car has matching engine and chassis numbers and it is original. The only thing that has puzzled me is that the bracket use to be mounted on the inside of the firewall. After I changed all of the body to frame mounting wood, the bracket fit better mounted to the outside of the firewall. It also had the original bolts when I changed it.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 02:42 am:

Dale. I see you have '24 "hoopie" listed on your profile. I haven't heard that term in many many years. My Dad used to refer to any old car, what we would call a "a beater", as a hoopie. I've always wondered where that term came from. That was back in the fifties around here. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 09:19 am:

For Norm,

Your motto of “if it fits use it” works fairly well, but for a new Model T owner I would suggest adding “if it fits use it – if it functions safely.” That would remind them that many Model T parts not only interchange from one year to another but in many cases can be the original ones from an original driving car but once taken off -- they can be installed in an manner that is not safe. The front axle spindles and spring perches are a very familiar example to those of us that have seen it done incorrectly several times over the past few years. But for the new T owner they may not be aware that the parts fit fine but can cause an accident. See http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40382.html for an explanation of that. By the way – great looking 1926 touring on your profile.

For Jim,

Thank you so much for clarifying that your example was from an original car. That really helps us with the fact finding and reduces the probability of errors. There still can be some cases where a car was worked on back in the day and something was swapped out, but I would not anticipate that bracket being removed unless they wanted to remove the steering column.

If Ford purchased them from an outside supplier that might have caused the difference. But by the 1926 models, Ford was producing most of the car. They were still purchasing rubber items such as tires. I don’t know if the Hyatt roller bearings in the driveshaft and rear axle were produced by Ford under license or if he purchased them. And I don’t think he made his own electric light bulbs or spark plugs. Does anyone know of other items that Ford was purchasing from outside sources for the 1926 – 1927 models? Or any corrections to my initial guess at the parts he may have still been purchasing from outside sources? So “IF” Ford was producing the part himself, I wonder why the variation? The Factory Drawing and change cards would probably shed some light on that one. If anyone is going by the Benson Ford Archives – and has the time, would they take a look at Factory Number 40161 and it associated “change card” it might explain why there were two styles and when they were used. There are documented parts where Ford changed the way the part was made and then later went back to the original design. A good example of that is the Model T rear axle housings. Ford went with the pressed steel to save cost and weight. But in 1915 he went back to the same basic design for the rear axle housing that the Model N, R, S, and SR used – cast center with the tubes riveted to it.

If a few others with a high probability that the part came on the car from the factory could check – that would add some additional data points.

Thank you all for helping.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Voss on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 10:16 am:

My 27 Tudor engine October 26 sold January 27 car is repaired not restored has a bracket unlike ether one. It is cut square on top but over lapping sides run all the way to bottem edge of the firewall. This car has been it the family from 1930.

Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 01:17 pm:

The usual way to remove the engine in a 26-27 is to first remove the steering column and pull the engine out by lifting the front until the pedals clear the firewall, then sliding forward. It is likely that most, if not all Model T engines have been removed at least once for work on the bearings, magneto etc or complete rebuild. It is also quite possible that that bracket might have been lost or replaced at sometime in the past. It is also possible that different configurations of the bracket were used at different times or as replacements. I have 2 26 open cars and both have the bracket shown in the lower picture, but I have no history of one of the cars and the other was assembled from a big pile of parts. I think that particular bracket was obtained at a swap meet.
Norm


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