Identify cars

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Identify cars
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Stevens on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 02:33 pm:

I a searching for more information about the cars in the pictures. I want to know which one was older than the other because one of them was the first car owned by my great grandfather in Norway, Michigan and the other was their second car. My grandmother told me their first car was red with brass fittings. Their second car was purchased in 1915. I know that from a news article that said "Fons DeRoeck has swapped his old red car for a brand new Ford" (Norway Current, March 27, 1915). Also anything else you might care to tell me about these cars.
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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Stevens on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 02:38 pm:

sorry the directions said that I would be prompted for an image file but that never happened. How do I post the pictures or delete my message?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Stevens on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 03:12 pm:

Another try
Car1
Car2
Car2view2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 03:16 pm:

Pat,

You are close. But you need to add the brackets after the word image. You do not want a space between the word image and the {put-something-inside-the-brackets}. There are some good directions posted by George at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/114896.html?1258764268 that you can cut and paste the proper command from his document into you posting.

There are also some screen captures in the thread http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/113685.html?1258684732 scroll down until you get to one that starts with:

By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 10:29 pm:
There are probably several ways that will work for posting a picture. Below is one that I just did so I could do some screen captures and show you what it looked like on my screen. I’m not a computer person – so this is probably not the most efficient way to do things – but is offered as one way to post a photo.

In the mean time feel free to send me the photo and please include the link back to this posting so I be sure I find the correct one. You can click on my name and that brings up my profile and my e-mail address is the third line down. And also please put “Model T” or something similar in the subject line so it isn’t deleted in the Spam filter by mistake. Also -- please send and/or post some high resolution shots of the car and its parts. You are limited to 200kb per photo but if you start with a 1.2 mb photo and crop the front half of just the car it often will be much smaller but still a lot higher resolution than if you compress the entire photo down to 200kb or less. See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/116286.html?1259897428 for an illustration of why the higher resolution sections are very helpful.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Stevens on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 03:37 pm:

Thank you all for the help. I finally got them up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 04:03 pm:

Pat,

This assumes it is a USA produced car and not a Canadian car. Assuming the parts were not changed from the time the car left the factory, the “Red Car” or first car would have been one of the early 1909 Model T Ford tourings. It does not have the “lip” on the front fenders and that is an easy way to distinguish them from the later 1909-1910 cars that look virtually the same. If it had the later style front fenders it could be either a 1909 or 1910 but with those fenders it was a 1909. Note also that after Jun 1909 the touring cars were all produced in Brewster Green and red was no longer offered as a standard color. So a Jun 1909 or earlier 1909 Model T. If the boy was not standing in front of the emergency brake lever we would be able to tell if it had one or two levers – and that would also help date the car. If you can send a higher resolution scan of the front frame just below the radiator – we might be able to tell a little more about the date. And of course if you have any other photos that would show how many levers are next to the driver’s left leg – that would also help date the car.

The second car is a typical 1915 Model T Ford touring. Again if you can post or send a higher resolution photo, the very early 1915 tourings did not have a carriage bolt in the side of the body just in front of the rear door. Most of the later ones did have that carriage bolt. The brass rims on the lamps would date the cars as 1915 models and not the later 1916 models.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Stevens on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 04:22 pm:

Hap,
Thanks for your help.
Here are a couple of close ups.
The first is Car 1 which would be the "Red Car".
The second closeup is Car2 - the resolution of the original picture is not as good.
Pat
1closeup
2closeup


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:39 pm:

Pat,

Again all this assumes the cars have the parts that originally came on them and the parts were not replaced prior to the photo. It appears you Great Grandfather purchased one of the first 2500 Model T’s produced. It has the early style radiator designated as T-1100-A that was used on those first 2500 cars along with the matching radiator cap part 3926. It also has the all steel hood used on those first 2500 cars that has the hinge made into the hood rather than riveted to the hood panels with the rivets showing on both sides of the hinge. Note it does not have the crank handle in the upright position which most of the first 2500 cars could do. Many owners carefully always locked the handle in the up position but others did not always do that.

1

It has the later style front end spacer that was adopted for use on/about Oct 14, 1908 so the car was produced after Oct 14, 1908. [ref Trent Boggess’s article “Model T Number One” Nov – Dec 2004 “Vintage Ford.”]

Ref Bruce McCalley’s “Model T Ford” page 502 that the first 2,691 Model Ts had been assembled by the end of April 1909 and engine 2,449 was assembled on Apr 22, 1909. So from what we currently have your Great Grandfather’s car would have been produced sometime between Mid Oct 1908 to late Apr or the first week in May, 1909 [ref McCalley “Model T Ford” pages 480-481]. With shipping it could have been delivered a little later. And it would have been red in color.

If your Great Grandfather purchased the car new after Mar 3, 1909 there is an excellent chance the Benson Ford Archives has the original shipping document. If you have anything with the original car number (it matched the car number, registration number, and the engine number) you could request a copy of the original shipping document. If you do not have the car/engine number, there is a very very very remote slim chance that your Great Grandfather is listed in the archives along with the car he purchased. If you send me his name, I will check the partial list of records I have Car #9 through #1114 (shipped Mar 2, 1909). Most of the cars are listed going to a dealer/business. But a few were ordered direct by individuals and were shipped to that name.

Of interest to the Ford folks – note the car did not have a “Ford” script on the radiator top tank nor across the radiator core.

If you have the opportunity would you please send me a high resolution scan of the red 1909 Ford? You can click on my name and it brings up my profile. My e-mail address is listed on the third line down on my profile. Also, I still could not make out if the second car the 1915 did or did not have the carriage bolt. But you know the date of the newspaper article was Mar 27, 1915 and Ford did not start producing the 1915 model year / style touring until Jan 1915. So the second car would be some where between Jan and Mar 1915.

Again thank you for posting the picture.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Stevens on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 07:39 am:

Hap,
Wow. That is great information. Thank you so much. I will work on sending you another photo and info on my Great Grandfather.
Pat


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