Starting problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Starting problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold R Carpenter on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 06:56 pm:

I am restoring a 1923-(24) Tudor Sedan. The engine is completely rebuilt. I have gas to the carburetor and fire to the coils. It turns over but does not fire. I have carefully checked the wiring from the coils to the commutator and everything is according to specs. Using a volt meter I get six volts to the bottom of the coil box and six volts to the terminals on the top of the coils. Is it possible to have the commutator brush off by 180 degrees. Any suggestions?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tman on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 07:06 pm:

Is it getting enough Fuel try opening up the mixture screw about 2 1/2 to three turns and crank it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold R Carpenter on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 07:48 pm:

I will try this. I have been trying with the mixture screw open about 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Alexander on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 07:57 pm:

Try the carb at 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 turns. Remove a plug and hold it to the block and see if it fires. Check that all wires are tight. Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 08:07 pm:

Check and see if #1 cylinder is firing on the compression stroke. You can do this by removing the spark plug and put your thumb over the hole to feel the compression. Looking at the plugs will tell you if you are getting too little or too much gas (flooded). If #1 firing is correct then check firing order 1-2-4-3.

You could wire the timer incorrectly and get timing 180 off. Some early camshafts had a through hole for the timer pin and these could be installed 180 off. It would be unlikely to have one of these cams on your later model.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold R Carpenter on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 08:36 pm:

I have removed the #1 plug and laid it on the head. I can see the plug fire. I have turned the ignition to battery and slowly turned the crank. The #1 coil buzzes strongly, the #2 and #3 buzz but not as strongly, and the #4 does not seem to buzz at all. I have changed the location of the coils in the coil box and it does not seem to make any difference. Tomorrow I will crank the engine untill the #1 piston is at top dead center and check the location of the brush in the commutator. I will also try different settings of the mixture needle. I appreciate all the advice I have received and will let you know what happens tomorrow after I get home from Church and can try the suggestions. Thanks a lot!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:45 pm:

Have you checked the compression? If your timing gear is not installed correctly, the valves will not open at the right time. Also check for vacuum. If you pull the choke while turning over the engine, you should get sucking and draw gas up into the cylinders. If you keep on choking, some will drip out of the carburetor. Any or all of the above could be the problem. I know about the timing gear, having not even known about the timing marks, the first time I worked on an engine I got it wrong and it would not start!
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:33 pm:

Harold,

For the coils to buzz you need power and ground. You say you have power to all the coils, which makes sense because the strip of copper at the bottom of the coil box is continuous. So if you have power to one coil, all should have power.

The timer supplies ground. It is an easy matter to use a volt meter to check for ground at the timer terminal for the #4 cylinder. I bet the problem is not there. Likely you have a dirty or bent terminal where #4 coil gets its ground connection inside the coil box.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:05 pm:

I did see a T speedster that was under restoration, had the timer wires & the spark plug wires..... reversed... at the coil box. The owner could not understand why the engine wouldn't start.... and he followed the photo's he took before dismantling !!!

Be sure the timer wires are in proper sequence at the timer .....& connected to their respective coil box terminals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold R Carpenter on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 10:14 am:

Thanks Guys for all the good suggestions. I will try them all until I find the solution. With gas and spark it should start, so it has to be some simple problem that I haven't found yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:10 pm:

Harold if the engine has never run (like yours), quite possibly the cylinders have no oil on them. Quite often it helps the first start to put about a teaspoon of oil into each cylinder. This helps to seal up the rings until they can get a initial seating. Yes it will smoke pretty good when it first starts for a couple of minutes. I think Tman gave you the right initial carb setting. After it starts you can lean it back to where your carb needs to be set. A little rich will start way better than too lean (which may never start. My experience says to pull the choke fully on and give the engine a couple of turns.I don't know what your T experience is but the T is choked differently from most other cars. Fully on for a couple of turns of the engine until it floods slightly, then fully off. Feathering the T choke does not seem to work well. If you were to stop now some gasoline should drip out of the air inlet of the carb. If it doesn't, figure out why


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