Looking for Six Touring car with Serial #632279

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Looking for Six Touring car with Serial #632279
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 06:52 pm:

I know this is a long shot but I just found the original bill of sale for my Great Grandfathers 1915 or 1916 Six Touring car with serial No. 632279. It also has another # M27658.
The car was purchased at R.L.Kent in Norton, Kansas on Oct. 2 1915.
It would be great to find this car, a very long shot I know, but I have to try. I want to make sure it goes to a good home.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 07:58 pm:

I assume you are not talking about a Model T since there was no "Six". There were a lot of Sixes made by various manufacturers in that period but none were Ford. You might try some of the other forums. Like Chevrolet, Maxwell, Paige, Packard or even Pierce-Arrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 08:37 pm:

A Ford Model T of that serial number was built in Nov 1914, so where does the Six come in? And why the gap from Nov 1914 to Oct 1915?

Nobody else produced cars in quantity to get that high in serial number by 1915.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls,WI on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 09:10 pm:

Dear John:

Is there a way that you could photograph the bill of sale and post it on this site. Your picture must be less than 200KB in size, and you have to follow the correct format.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 09:39 pm:

Ricks -

Not all automobile companies started with serial #1 for a given model.

For example, the first IHC Model F roadster, which was produced in 1910, was serial #401, not serial #1.

There are a number of reasons why this was done; for example, psychological and marketing reasons. Just like today, nobody wanted to buy a newly released model with a low serial number thinking that the bugs may have not yet been worked out by the manufacturer, etc.

Also, sometimes numbers stood for something. The "6" in 632279 could mean six cylinder, etc.

Erik Johnson


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls,WI on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 11:59 am:

John sent me the invoice, but I could not figure out how to get it downloaded before I left for work. I sent it to Hap - perhaps he can download it for us.

The invoice definitely states Six Touring car just like John says. Need to find out if the dealer only sold Ford's or some other brand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 12:11 pm:

In my copy of "The Encyclopedia of Motorcars 1885 to the Present", 640 pages, there is no Six listed. Of course that doesn't mean it never existed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 12:30 pm:

could it mean 'six passenger'?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls,WI on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 01:24 pm:

What is the possibility that the dealer told him you can get 6 people in the car? It is a tight fit, but can be done. How late in 1914 was it built, so maybe they called it a 1915. How long did it sit in the shop? This is small town Kansas. Did they tell GGrandpa it was a 15 to make it sound newer?

Questions that may never be answered.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 04:52 pm:

I'll try to upload the pictures
/image{a}
/image{b}


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 04:53 pm:

Use the backslash instead of the forward slash

\image{a}
\image{b}


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 04:54 pm:

Well that didn't work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 04:56 pm:

Thank you

a
b


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennie kirkpatrick on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 05:16 pm:

I have been looking for the 1927 model t touring that my dad built for us kids, when I was in El Dorado High School in El Dorado Kansas. It was last seen on a trailer setting at a filling station in Augusta Kansas in the late 60's. It belonged to a retired police chief.
I have SOME paper work on it, but the trail went cold when I found a fellow in Wichita Kansas who supposedly had the ENGINE and the #'s matched my paper work, but he was elderly and couldn't remember anything.
The court, in El Dorado, to make matters worse, had the engine serial # in the wrong locatin on the title, and caused some confusion, so I haven't tried lately to move on the investigation.

Kirk


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 05:28 pm:

My father past away about 2 years ago and my Step Mother just now decided to give me all his stuff. There's a box with lots of old pictures in it(1890s on up) that I haven't gone through yet, maybe a picture of the car will be in there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls,WI on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 05:30 pm:

With that price he should have received 2 cars. Touring were only about $500 in 1915, and down to $360 in 1917. Must have been something other than a Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 05:53 pm:

John

Don't think that receipt has much info to help identify the make. A search of American cars didn't turn up a "Six" as a maker of autos.

Best guess is that the car was a six-cylinder touring which were common in 1915 and 1916 by lots of makers,... Lexington, Paige, Hudson..etc.

The price of $1050 with a big 15% discount would indicate a lesser quality big car, or a car being discounted or used even. A brand that was made in Kansas at the time was the Jones Six, priced in that range, made in Wichita, 1915-1920....maybe your great grandfather bought one of these at special discount?
pic here


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 06:39 pm:

That is strange they didn't put the make down. I did find that National made a "Six Touring" car but the price was about double.
Hopefuly I'll find a picture of it when I get time to go through these pictures.
Thanks everybody for your help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Eastwood on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 06:49 pm:

Go to the Norton Kansas Historical society, research R.L. Kent auto dealer, and find out what kind of cars they sold in 1915.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Knowles on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 07:41 pm:

This is probably not the car but interesting just the same. Check out the Maritime Singer Six produced in Saint John, New Brunswick at roughly the same time. www.reginaantiqueauto.ca/carsofcanada.htm

Colin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 12:59 am:

I am fairly sure you are looking at Studebaker. They were the first major production "mono-block" six, which began in 1913. 1913 through May 1915 were more expensive. June 1915 saw the new, lighter, lower priced, improved six which sold for (ta-da) $1050. A 15% discount is hard to believe, though. I owned one of these incredible cars for several years until family problems forced me to sell it. A good friend of mine is now the caretaker of that fine automobile. I don't have my reference books handy, but if my memory isn't too far off, the serial numbers sound about right.
W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 02:44 pm:

I went through one of the boxes of pictures this morning and happened to find these pictures. This more than likely isnít the car, because this is my Grandfather and the car in question was on my Grandmothers side. This picture was taken in 1918 and probably in Kansas, but I need to do more research to know for sure.
I have another box of pictures to go through, so maybe Iíll find more car pictures.
Iím sure you guys can tell if this could be the car. Would this car have sold for $1050.00? Could it have a 6 cylinder in it? What make is it?
Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it very much.
c
d


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Mullin on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 03:54 pm:

John,

Your Grandfather's car looks like a 1917-1918 Model T Ford Touring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 04:04 pm:

And it sold, brand new, for about half of that $1050.00 that you mentioned John, and all Model T Fords were 4 cylinder engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:19 am:

I took Peterís suggestion and contacted the Norton County Historical Society. The very nice Secretary there told me that in 1915 R.L.Kent was a Dodge Brothers dealer, so it was more than likely a Dodge Bros. Touring car.
So now I guess Iíll find a Vintage Dodge forum and see what they have to say.
Thanks to everyone, I appreciate your suggestions and comments.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 03:00 am:

John,
In 1915 Dodge Brothers were 4 cylinder cars, priced not much above the T. I have a '16 touring in pieces.
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 03:13 pm:

You're right, that's what the Dodge Bros forum said too, and the serial number doesn't fit either.
It does without the 6 in front, but they didn't have 6 cyl. until the 20s. Next stop, Waynes suggestion, I'll check out the Studebaker forum and see what they have to say, if that doesn't pan out I'll just send it to the Norton Historical Society they have some other printings from the R.L.Kent dealer in their museum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 03:56 pm:

Perhaps that dodge dealership sold the "six" as a used car. That may explain why they didn't put much detail on the reciept. They didn't care about it as much as a new car sale. Just a thought.

Erich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 01:46 pm:

That's very possible since Dodge didn't have 6 cylinder car yet. I wonder if they could have been a dealer for more than one make? I'm checking to see if it could have been a Studebaker.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard Tobias on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 03:53 pm:

How about a six wheeled Reeves SextoAuto
sixwheel
Howard


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Weston on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:30 pm:

Thanks for all your help everyone. Went to the Studebaker forum and found out all the #s match for a 1916 Studebaker Touring. Now to find out if the car still exists.
Again thanks for all your help.
John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 09:15 pm:

The Jones Six was built in the U.S. from 1915 through 1920 in Whitchita, Kansas They built six cylinder open Touring Cars and at first had their own engines of 21.6 horsepower but later on had a Continental 29.4 horsepower powerplant from 1917 on. This is the ALAM rate at 1000 rpm. They also made trucks up to 2 AND A 1/2 ton capacity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 10:37 pm:

Howard, The Reeves SextoAuto and OctoAuto was really an Overland with either two or four axles. Since Mr. Reeves never sold a single car, he put the car back together as a stock Overland and sold the car.

The driver was A Mr.Clemmie Cummins, who built some interesting Diesel engines in Columbus Indiana later in his life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 11:03 pm:

Clessie Lyle Cummins. His son Lyle wrote a great book - "Internal Fire"


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