Leaving field ring off

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Leaving field ring off
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 08:13 am:

I am rebuilding my engine and have decided to run a distributor.Yes,I am very naughty.
I intend to run the magnets for the oil pickup and also to give a little weight to the flywheel.
My question is:Can I leave the field ring off and not jeopordise the lube?
I think it will be okay, however I am curious to the thoughts of others.

Gavin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 08:36 am:

G'mornin' Gavin. I think it would be fine since the field ring is stationary and has nothing to do with slinging oil around. What do you plan to do with the field ring? I'll be glad to take it off your hands. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 08:37 am:

If you are going that route,just use the oil slingers instead of magnets.
I honestly feel like puttting the mag ring back in and the magnets would be best though.Consider if you need to resell at some point and the new owner wants to go back to coils,he would have to pull the engine down again and replace the missing componets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 08:52 am:

I wonder. Couldn't you just leave in the coil ring and disconnect it at the mag post? That way everything will be in place in case you or someone else ever wants to go back. It might be a good idea to put a note with the Model T title and associated paperwork, to inform new owners down the line, what you did. We won't be here forever, but hopefully, our cars will. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:28 am:

Mornin'Jim,

I think I'll keep the field ring just in case I become a little more pure-of-heart.I've bought the material for the front bumpers but I've become sidetracked with this engine build.I'll send you the pics of the bumpers when finished,I promise!

Mack,

I have slingers but I want the extra weight on the flywheel on this car.My other car has slingers and I think it is lacking a little momentum on the flywheel as it revs well but fades quickly on hills.
So,this is sort of a test to see if the weight makes any difference...we'll see.
There will be no new owner...ever.She's mine,all mine.

Anyone gone from slingers back to magnets??Any difference??

Thanks fellas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:43 am:

G'Day Gavin. Great decision! I was just kidding about wanting the coil ring. Had you decided to remove it, I would hope you would box it up safely and keep it with the car. I look forward to seeing the bumpers. Is your Dad helping you? Give him my regards. If you need anymore pictures just let me know. Here's hoping you and yours have a very Merry Christmas. Best wishes from up over. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:06 am:

Hi Jim,

I've already removed the field ring and plan on leaving it off,unless there is a reason not to.
Yeah,the old fella's helping with it too and he's gearing up for a T himself.
I'll try and send a pic.
Here goes.
engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:10 am:

Hi Jim,

I've already removed the field ring and plan on leaving it off,unless there is a reason not to.
Yeah,the old fella's helping with it too and he's gearing up for a T himself.
I'll try and send a pic.
Here goes.
engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:15 am:

Wow,I keep repeating myself myself.

Can't send pics.Computer too old.Too bad,they were really good.

Thanks

Gavin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:32 am:

I know what you mean. I can't post pictures either and mine's not old... but I am. LOL! Here's my e-mail: jim@bvsmulberryrailcar.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:48 am:

I guess the best reason for keeping it in is that, inside the car is the safest place for it, so there is no way for it to become separated from the car or dammaged. Also, with it in the car, if, for some reason you are dissatisfied with the distributor all you need to do is remove the distributor and reattach the wire to the Mag post instead of having to remove the engine and transmission all over again.

I have heard of folks who put in a distributor, but went right back to the magneto for the simple reason that they missed the buzz of the coils, which is the distinct voice of your Model T and, for me, when I hear the buzzing of the four coils, as I hand crank my T, it makes me smile, for it is as if my Model T is talking to me and encouraging me and I would not silence its' distinct voice for anything. Just one more unique aspect of the Model T that separates it from the modern day cars.

I would encourage you to put it back in because there is a possibility that you will be unhappy with the distributor and if you are, the option of going back is made much easier if you keep it in and now, while the engine is apart, is the time to do it. Just my thoughts. Respectfully submitted. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Humble on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:57 am:

Gavin,
Leaving the field ring off seems short sighted. It will most likley become lost or damaged if it is stored around the house and if in the future you or a new owner wants to put the stock ignition back on it will require pulling the engine to reinstall the ring. Why not put it on and make it functional while you have the engine out to keep your options open. If I was considering buying a T that the mag ring was missing I would wounder what other things the prior owner may have deemed unimportant and left out like safety wire, cotter pins, etc. Do the extra work and do it right and you will never regret it, cutting corners may seem smart now but in 5-10 years you may not think so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 11:08 am:

I understand that, it is much easier now, not to have to go through the bother of installing the coil ring. I remember when I installed mine back in 1971 as a skinny, weak 17 year old kid (Pre-Marine Corps). I must have removed and installed the heavy transmission a dozen times in order to put in and remove or change around the shims until I got the gap just right, but if you do it now, I'm sure you won't regret it. Once that big job is done, you may just decide to stick with the old system. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By david willis on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 08:04 pm:

this is just on my old speedster, but i took out the field ring, magnets, starter ring...pretty much put the engine on a severe diet...i added aluminum paddles for oil ..it works well, revs faster and still starts on the crank [has to, as i removed the starter, generator and added a magneto. trust me.. the stock flywheel is plenty heavy enough without the magnets as long as oil paddles are installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John H on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:33 pm:

As I'm in the process of an engine rebuild and will not be keeping the field coil and magnets (they're stuffed and I've seen what happens when coils come off or magnets break...let's have one less worry) this is a timely thread. I've got the heavy duty oil paddles from Texa T Parts...very nicely engineered.
Question for those with no field ring, how do you mount the oil tube? With the field ring in place the funnel is spaced a little from the block. With no ring it would seem the oil tube will protrude further in. Any chance of it hitting the timing gears? (my block is still away so I can't actually test this).
Also, what do you lock the funnel mounting bolt with? Put all four field ring bolts back in and use the tie wire as before?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.woods on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 11:51 pm:

I have a heart pacemaker and I asked Ross Lilleker for advice on the magneto. He advised me to just demagnetize or flatten the magnets by doing the opposite of recharging them in the car. Then, leave them in to sling oil. Then, if and when the car changes ownership, the new owner can just recharge them again if he desires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Art Wilson on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 01:53 am:

The field coil ring helps keep the felt hogs head gasket in place, both during assembly of the hogs head and while in service.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 09:52 am:

John H,

I spaced the oil line the same width as the field ring.I think it was about 3/8" from memory.So,the oil line will be in the same position as it was with the ring on.I used Loctite as a precaution on the bolt,although I do like your suggestion of putting all 4 bolts back.
I also do not trust my field ring.It is deteriorated and therefore would probably not work in any case.That is the sole reason,as like yourself,that I do not want to install it--in case something drops off.

Thankyou to everyone for the help and great advice.

Gavin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 10:18 am:

You can leave off the oil slingers too, if you get the oil line that requires you to drill a hole in the transmission cover and line the hole up with the starter ring gear and have one of those installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John H on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 05:24 pm:

That's a good point about the felt, Art. Hadn't even thought about that. One could use a coil ring with all the coils removed I guess, or dare I say it cut the coil ring in two so you just have the top part bolted on to the back of the block. I couldn't really bring myself to cut up Model T parts...just an idea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 08:32 pm:

On some engines,those bolts are drilled clear through and if you leave them out ,you will have one heck of an oil leak.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 02:58 pm:

Anyone building an engine without the field coil ring should check the lower bolt holes that hold it on, the ones adjacent to the pan rail. Many of them are drilled through to the front side of the block casting. You will have a gulleywasher of a leak! Be certain to plug the holes with a short bolt and some loctite to prevent this.
Fordially, Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 08:42 am:

Thanks to everyone that has replied.
In regards to the bottom bolts being left out as stated by Jack and Eric I am a little confused.They are both correct in saying the two bottom holes are thru drilled,however they exit into the engine casting.Surely the extra oil spashing into the engine would be a good thing??I will,however,fit bolts back into the holes just to be sure,as I do not plan on "re-inventing the wheel"
Please excuse my inexperience as this is my first T engine rebuild and I am just curious as to where the leak will be.
Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 09:01 am:

Gavin. I am curious too. While I have never seen one, apparently there is the occassional block in which the bottom holes of the magneto coil ring on each side are drilled through to the outside of the engine block just above the lip of the engine block. It is hard for me to see how this could happen because the coil ring holes are all uniform and if the holes were far enough off to drill through, it would mean that the drilling jig was off which would mean that the coil ring would also be off center and new mounting holes would have to be drilled in the coil ring to accommodate the mistake. If anyone has a picture of this error (the magneto coil ring holes drilled through to the outside of the block), I would be interested in seeing it. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 09:15 am:

My mistake.The bottom holes are not thru drilled,however the top ones are.Should I still plug the remaining hole??

Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 09:24 am:

G'mornin' (here ion Florida) Gavin. Are your holes drilled through to the outside or the inside of the block. I understood that your holes come out into the interior of the engine casing. If that is the case and the oil is contained within the block, no need to block the holes. If the holes go to the outside of the block where oil could escape to the outside, it will be necessary to block them. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Long on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 09:43 am:

Mornin' Jim,
Top two holes go thru into the block,one of which has a bolt in it to hold the oil tube and the other is open.The bottom holes are not thru drilled.
I'll send some pics to you of my progress.

Gavin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 12:20 pm:

Gavin:

Many years ago I left a field coil out and didn't know that two of the holes were drilled all the way through the block to the outside. When I started the engine it looked like someone had struck oil. Since then if I leave the field coil out I alway put all four bolts back in. Another two things I do on all motors is throw away the the felt that comes in the gasket sets. Those felts are so flimsy all they do is strain the oil as it leaks out. You can go to a hardware store and get roles of good stout felt that will not leak. Another thing is I alway glue the felt to the Block and leave it over night so the felt will not slip when you put the hogs head on. I read frequently where guys are getting a bad oil leak in the corners of the Hogs Head. This is caused by the ends of the felt slipping. I have a big rubber band that holds the felt overnight while it is drying.

A110


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 11:13 pm:

I don't use the felt seal anymore. Just run a 3/8" bead of silicone over the seal surface and bolt down the cover. You can wipe off the excess and it looks fine, no leaks.


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