Shackles bumping axle

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Shackles bumping axle
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Klem on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:16 pm:

The shackles on my '23 rest on the axle. I am new to T's, but I am learning! There are 8 leaves on top of the hanger leaf. I would call some of them tapered. To me, it seems like the hanger leaf is too long?? See my pix, see what I mean! Any ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:29 pm:

Front,rear? body style? Off hand ,I'd say your spring bushings are shot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:34 pm:

Either my computer is broken or I'm going blind. I don't see any pictures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Klem on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:39 pm:

Hey, I'm new to this. I would sure rather be out fiddlin with my car than sittin here, but I thought I would give it a try. What I like about the T is that it is simple, this isn't! At least for a beginner!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Klem on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:47 pm:

Here goes, I am going to try to post some images, again. If it doesn't work, I'm going back out to the garage. Oh, as the pictures (hopefully) will show, it's the front axle!Right ShackleLeft Shackle


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:59 pm:

You are right,you appear to have a mixed spring pack. Front springs typically had seven leaves. I would support the engine/pan and pull those hangers for closer inspection. They are not supposed to be that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Klem on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:13 pm:

The only things I can think of are that the hanger leaf is too long, or the perches are drooping. I can't tell as I am a beginner at working on a T. Now, someone did mention that the tapered leaves were on earlier year models. Would they possibly be of a longer length? Ideas???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:13 pm:

How tall are your spring perches? Just by your picture they appear to be much too short. See: www.snydersantiqueauto.com/modeltparts/frontrearsprings and scroll down to the perches. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:23 pm:

I suspect these are not Model T shackles and their shaft center to center distance is more than it should be so the spring hangs lower than it should.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:24 pm:

Those look like Model A shackles or they're for the rear spring. The Model T front shackle bolts (studs) are closer together. It also looks like there's no bushings in the spring eyes. And as already mentioned, you have a mix of spring leaves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:26 pm:

Ops, Layden types faster than I do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:32 pm:

Check also those shackles, they don't seem to look right to me. Here is a pic of Ford T spring shackles.
pic here

Model A hangers are wider, maybe the shackle is too wide and lets the leaf spring hang down on the axle?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:36 pm:

See the following thread from October 2008: www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/68982.html. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 10:41 pm:

Yes. Those shackles do appear to be incorrect when compared with authentic Ford shackles. Go back up to the Snyders link and scroll down to the front spring shackles. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.woods on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 11:46 pm:

Assuming that the main leaf is correct and the correct shackles are installed, You may have a worn, de-arched main leaf. If the arch is correct, the length between bushing holes will be less than if the spring has lost its original arch and has flattened out which will lengthen the distance between the bushing holes. Also, along the same line of thinking, the 26-27 spring had a flatter arch, so make sure that you don't have a 26-27 main leaf.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Klem on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 11:56 pm:

How would I know if the main leaf is a 26-27. That was my first thought when I bought this T, as it has a 26-27 Ruxtall rear end, and, it is a '23 touring made into a pickup (nice custom all metal dumping bed)'23 Pickup


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 12:23 am:

I don't think there's a difference in the 26-27 springs from earlier other than the number of leaves. 26-27 used 8 leaves, earlier used 7. The axle is the same as well as the spring perches so the eye-to-eye length is the same. I think your main leaf is sprung and someone added a leaf to make up for it. I don't have the spec handy but I think the eye-to-eye length should be around 31".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.woods on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 01:49 am:

Ken, If there's no length difference between eye to eye on pre 26 and 26-27 front springs, then Don Lang knows something that you and I don't. His catalog lists different springs for the pre 26 and 26-27 springs. Also, different main leafs with reversed eyes for the speedster crowd. He refers to them as "high crown" and "low crown". Also, Bruce McCalley wrote in "From Here To Obscurity", on 26-27 models, "The improved Fords were lower in height than the previous models. This height reduction was accomplished by not only reducing the height of the bodies themselves (except for the fordor) but also by lowering the frame by a redesign of the front spindles, AND A REDUCTION OF THE CROWN IN THE FRONT AND REAR SPRINGS."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Berch on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 09:01 am:

Here's my 23' shackles, more of a flat strap.TT


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Berch on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 09:10 am:

Never mind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 12:09 pm:

During the 60's and 70's, an aftermarket company was making shackles. They used the rear shackle for the front, and just shortened them to fit. Late T useable shackles are easy to find, and I haven't had a problem finding NOS shackles either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Klem on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 08:05 pm:

Well, I have taken the whole thing apart. The bushings are worn, but the problem lies deeper than that. I think the shackle size is OK at 1 1/2" center to center, but the distance from spring eye to eye is 33 1/2" and the distance from perch eye to eye is 33 3/4". I think the springs (8+hanger) are not right for a T, at least mine. Also, the perches are not a symetrical set. They each look a bit different. I can buy new perches, but now I'm alookin for a good set of springs!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 08:37 pm:

As I mentioned earlier, I believe your problem is in the shackles. I just went to the garage, and measured a NOS FRONT SHACKLE, and it measures 1 3/8, center to center, not 1 1/2"! Find yourself some good Ford script front shackles, and your problem will be solved if you have new bushings in the perches and spring eyes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 10:13 pm:

Terry, you're right about the shallower arch on the 26-27 springs. I forgot about that but the eye-to-eye distance should still be the same as earlier springs or the shackles wouldn't fit.

Carl, if the spring is collapsed the eye-to-eye length increases. While you're at the front end, check the spindles to make sure they're pre-26/27. Someone may have changed the front-end out. The axle stub will be centered between the kingpin bushings. On 26/27 spindles, the axle stub is placed higher or towards the upper bushing. For your 23, the spindles should look like the center spindle pictured below.

Spindle Types


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Klem on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 10:37 pm:

My spindles are like the center ones in the picture. The eye to eye length I stated was along the arc of the spring, not across the span. The arc seems to be ok. Right now I am working on getting a good axle and correct springs. THANK YOU SO MUCH TO ALL WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO MY DILEMA. It is real nice to know that there is a supportive community out there, who share the camraderie of like minded souls!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 10:52 pm:

I would not worry about the axle it's self, unless it's bent, it now has a story to go with it! :-)


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