1928 Model T on Discovery

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: 1928 Model T on Discovery
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Kullmann on Monday, December 28, 2009 - 11:25 am:

So I was watching Discovery channel the other day and saw an ad for a new show called Motor City Motors. Its premier is on Decebmer 28th at 9pm CST. I looked up to see what they were going to be doing and it turns out they are going to modify a 1928 Model T into a hot rod.
Hmmm I thought this should be interesting. I sent them a note to let the know they didn't make a 1928 Model T. You'd think they would spend a a few minutes checking their facts.

While I don't subscribe to the modification of a piece of history like they are planning on doing I'm going to watch anyway to see what they are really starting with.

PGK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls,WI on Monday, December 28, 2009 - 01:38 pm:

Looks like they are going to destroy a 1926 Fordor Sedan. Tonight on discovery.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon on Monday, December 28, 2009 - 08:54 pm:

I may never watch Discovery channel again.
W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls,WI on Monday, December 28, 2009 - 11:34 pm:

They ripped it apart. Gone for good. Had to quit watching it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Mills on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 12:06 am:

That was pretty dumb, they even said the pickup at the end was a 1928, nice truck though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 01:26 am:

Hey maybe some day they can do a program that shows how to put LED's in place of the eyes on the Mona Lisa to make it coooool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 02:17 am:

That program is about like Monster Garage. I quit watching that show when they took the console out of a nice corvette with a sledge hammer. What is really disturbing about this show is they had a T guy on there, a member of both clubs. I am thoroughly disgusted with it. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 02:50 am:

They could have reduced that hour-long automotive soap opera down to something less than 5 minutes of that poor "acting" nonsense so that we wouldn't have had to be depressed for a full hour! What a waste of a nice solid "T" and our time!

Only good thing I can come up with is that maybe all '26 two-door owners can consider their Model T's are now worth just a bit more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim from ModelTengine.com on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:15 am:

I guess I have to stop reading this thread until after I see the show. I "DVR'd" it last night. Remember when we used to "tape" things?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Kuhnash on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:21 am:

I dont really mind if someone takes a rough car, and in this case it could have just been the body, and street rods it. But it is painful to see what looked like a mostly original car ripped to shreds for a trendy rat rod. I guess they pick on the really good cars because they have five days to do the dirty work, dont want to do much body work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:24 am:

I'm happy to say I did not watch it. I had my fill of shows like that whenever I watch Boyd Coddington destroy a beautiful original little '26 coupe several years ago, winding up with one of the ugliest abominations I have ever seen. Even his crew had reservations about destroying it. I'm sorry to say I developed a hatred for Boyd Coddington and the hobby that relies on the destruction of original vintage cars for its' existence, that has never abated and, when he died, I was not sad... all I could think of was that fewer vintage cars would suffer the same fate as that '26 Model T. A terrible way to think, I admit, but I can't help it.

These shows do so much irreparable damage. How many vintage cars have been destroyed by kids trying to copy their hot rod heros only to loose interest, or run out of money, halfway through the project, AFTER the damage has been done and the tow truck has been called to haul off the remnants. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:00 am:

Now you know why I stopped watching TV, I hate this kind of crap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 11:23 am:

Turned the channel as soon as it came on. Its all sensationalism anymore.

Vince M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rice on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 05:23 pm:

This was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen on TV.

I'm personally offended by this MTFCA and MTFCI member who helped these people destroy this Model T.

I weighed in on the show's forum, feel free to follow!

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/19719776301


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim from ModelTengine.com on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 05:31 pm:

I managed to watch the show today on the DVR. Seems the "paint brother" was REALLY bored? He spray canned everything he could find and had almost nothing to do with the car. His shining moment was smashing a brand new window with a hammer “to improve it”.

My first thoughts when it started were "too bad they didn't call me for the T part of the race", then "what a waste of a good car" to "what is wrong with them" and "I'm glad I wasn't involved" when they cut into the body.

I bet that race losing piece of crap they created will end up in a junk pile in less than a week after the spotlight fades. How do you lose your own “made for TV” race anyway?!? They ruined a desirable T so they could create a 1,000hp sand-rail under a newly dead Model T’s hacked up skin.

In case Motor City Motors and the Discovery Channel Producers read this (and feel free to forward it to them if you know how):

The collective old car hobby thanks all the TV guys and Discovery channel for this show. You took a good car that a lot of people search long and hard for - and turned it into garbage in under five days. Someone should nominate you for an Emmy. You probably threw away parts that people on this forum BEG for (i.e. window regulators).

Roughly 15 million T’s were made 80-100 years ago. The number is down to "250,000 still on the road" according to your tv show. You dropped that number by one, Boyd Coddington repeatedly did the same a few years ago, Monster Garage sucked in one our club members and ruined another awhile back too I think. I’m sure there were others too just looking for a quick buck and good ratings but I can’t think of them all right now. Another 249,999 like minded people and there will be none left.

You destroyed a $10k piece of American history just to get $500 worth of sheet metal you probably could have gotten for free by making a few well-placed phone calls. Anyone can do what you did on that show. Steel tubing and a crate motor – whoopee. Building that “car” has contributed nothing to society – it won’t bring “Detroit back to life”. You wasted everyone’s time, just to sell Diaper Genies, Sham-wows or whatever the hell was in all those commercials I skipped past using the DVR.

Next time you want to do a car show based on a Model T - call me before you plan it out. I'll help you build something interesting, something that doesn't involve completely destroying the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim from ModelTengine.com on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 05:34 pm:

William - put a link to this page on there for them. Snip a piece out of my post above if you want to get their attention. I'm not registering for another forum for one post...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rice on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 05:38 pm:

Go Tim!
I posted it to the Discovery Channel forum. It "has to be approved" as it contains "one or more trigger words" but I'd expect it up soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim from ModelTengine.com on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 06:39 pm:

I have a great idea for the next hit tv show - take a rat rod and turn it back into an original car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By coreywalker on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 07:01 pm:

Tim, that's a great idea. Every time I look at some "hot rod" I just think, what would have to be done to put it back to original. I saw a Model A chassis, complete on Craigslist the other day, $100. Ad said "will make a great hay ride buggy." I called to buy it but it had sold. Somebody probably did weld up the spindles and add brackets, etc. and make a hay ride buggy. That's the mentality of people here in east Texas. Seems like I spend more time explaining to people how it'd be stupid to put a 350 in my T, than showing them how the original stuff works. I bought a good running original 47 Hudson a couple years ago. I liked the car, but the dealer (it was at a used car lot) told me, "yea, some guys are supposed to come get it in a couple days. They want to lower it, put a 350 blah, blah." Then I knew I had to buy it. I've got an antenna that only gets 3 or 4 channels so I can't watch Discovery. I don't even go to car shows because hot rods make me sick to my stomach. Chrome wheels make me sick to my stomach. The hubcaps put on by Ford, Chevy, Studebaker or whoever are works of art to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 08:38 pm:

I saw the show. I'm firmly against trashing a piece of history. Even looking at from a hot rodding perspective, what they ended up with was a total hack job. It certainly was not a Chip Foose creation. Personally, I hope this show gets canceled before they can do anymore destruction.

They have had several shows like this recently. Why can't the Discovery Channel do a real antique auto restoration show? A professional restoration shop could put those hot rodders to shame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Driscoll on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 08:41 pm:

"...and yet there are men whose hands and minds will tear down what time will never give again." from unknown


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Stinson on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:20 pm:

Before :

Before

After :

after

This is some model t ''enthusiast'' Drag racing the ugly rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Stinson on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:20 pm:

Before :

Before

After :

after

This is some model t ''enthusiast'' Drag racing the ugly rod.
(sorry for the low quality ugly rod pic)
Photos taken off Google.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:21 pm:

There aint a real good fix to this problem.People nowadays want it quick and now.A good restoration takes longer than 5 days of filming so I doubt they would do it.
I would hope someone on that show has enough sense to allow someone to get the removed parts and reuse them.
off the topic slightly,but
You know there are some shows like "trick my truck" and others take peoples cars and trucks and "restore" them.
I told my friends along time ago if my 74 Lincoln disappeared and I wound up on tv being shown my "new ride" with 26's and a purple paint job I would either personaly kick thier ---'s or hire somebody that could for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim from ModelTengine.com on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:27 pm:

Trick my truck would have done a better job. Probably install a model railroad inside next to a pink water fountain, but anything would have been better than that "drag racer" shown above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rice on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:31 pm:

Here's the loving response from the administrator of www.motorcitymotors.net, a fan site of the program:

"Will, while I appreciate where you’re coming from, keep in mind that there are still 250,000 + Model T’s on the road today. You’re right when you call it an ‘historic’ vehicle, but by no means is it rare. If there were only a few thousand of these still around I would feel your pain but I don’t think one sacrifice out of a quarter million is so bad.
“Hacked?” How else do you do something like this in 5 days?"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rice on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:41 pm:

Thanks, Randy, here is the text I found:

THE COVERED BRIDGE

Some part of life becomes oblivion;
Something with roots deep buried in the heart
Of simple folk is lost, as one by one,
These pioneers of other days depart.
Only the country folk, whose careless tread
Endears a dusty road, can ever know
The peaceful, clattering joy of rude planks spread
Above a drowsy creek that gleams below.

Here was a refuge from the sudden showers
That swept like moving music field and wood,
And here cool, tunnelled dark when sultry hours
Danced with white feet beyond the bridge's hood...
Yet, there are soulless men whose hand and brain
Tear down what time will never give again.
-ANDERSON M. SCRUGGS.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:43 pm:

Here's something that will break your heart. Watch it and weep:

www.motorcitymotors.net/motor-city-motors-first-episode-video/

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brian c lawrence on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:48 pm:

Really,


What else would you expect frrom a bunch of "custom"? bike builders? What a shame.

BRian


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rice on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:58 pm:

The video says Chuck Mitchell is the "Model T Guru" and member of MTFCA and MTFCI (with two Ts of his own) who helped chop up this beauty. I'd love to have his thoughts on what happened.

Also, Jamie, the 'designer,' says at 1:39 that "a lot of people are gonna be mad at us for cuttin up this car."

Yep.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:59 pm:

That's the T.V. show that we've been talking about since Paul started this thread Jim. Imagine! Must be somebody that considers that "entertainment"! Pretty depressing, huh?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 11:10 pm:

Yes Harold. Ruined my night! I found the link to the video on the site that William Rice posted. Anybody ever heard of Chuck Mitchell, "Model T Guru"? He should've walked away in protest. It would have taken all five of them to restrain this old 6'3", 250 lb. Marine when they started cutting. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Mills on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 11:22 pm:

Before we start hanging ppl in the streets I would just like to say that I am a custom bike builder and I would never ever ever think of doing something like that to a stock model T or A, especially one in that good of condition. As a matter of fact the T I own now I purchased from my dad and before I got it my brother was going to buy it until he said he was going to cut this and that and put a small block in it and then my dad hit the roof and said if you are gonna do that then you cant but my T! Go find your own but it isint gonna be this one! My dad has had his T since 1958. Dont get me wrong, we like tastefull hot rods and mostly 50's style hot rods but as he taught me, You dont build hot rods out of T's and A's! He has also had his A since 1950.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 11:37 pm:

Hey Rob! I like your Dad already and I haven't even met him! And you sound like a guy that just plain likes wheels, PERIOD! And there's nothing wrong with that; just ask Dennis Halpin, right Dennis?

To be fair though, I think "Motor City Motors" should finance just one more show, and then hang it up! For that last and FINAL show, I think they should take the most respected Boyd Coddington hot rod or custom car they can find and and let the two teams on "Junkyard Wars" compete to build two lawnmowers out of it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:21 am:

At first, I was under the impression that the TV crew had hauled a rusted body and frame out of a junk yard and given it a new lease on life (after a fashion)--and so I was wondering what all the commotion was about. Then I read Thomas Stinson's post which showed photos of the lovingly restored antique car with which the TV crew started out and the vulgar, quick and dirty candidate for the Demolition Derby they made from it. Good grief, how could any mechanic stand back and look at that hatchet-job and say to himself, "Yeah, that's better," and then hold it up to a television audience as if it met some standard of craftsmanship? The habitual Discovery Channel rehash of bickering mechanics working double shifts to meet one-week deadlines has been done to death, already.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:30 am:

Ya' mean the Discovery Channel people should realize that "real men" don't like soap operas, even if they include wheels, huh Bob?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Niekamp on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:38 am:

I'd give almost anything if my 26 Tudor looked as nice of condition as this one DID before. Now it wouldn't be worth a damn for anything. I had my hopes up when they were discussing about chopping or not chopping the body, at least if they didn't chop it, it would have still had a chance....NOT NOW! :-( This made me utterly sick to my stomach.

You know if this would have been an historical landmark or buidling, this would never taken place. To bad the same thing didn't apply to nice historical cars.

What a terrible waste of an original nice T :-( :-( :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Niekamp on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:45 am:

Thomas Stinson,

Don't apologize for that low quality picture. It gives that P.O.S. rat rod (and those who DESTROYED it) the real credit they really deserves. Actually there is NO quality in it what so ever.

Again, what a terrible waste!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 03:52 am:

You got it right on Harold.
I am a "Hot Rodder". I've owned Rods and Customs all my life. I bought my (perfectly original) 27 Tudor to make a 50's era, Flathead V8 powered Hot Rod out of it but the ol girl got the best of me before I could pick up a hack saw.
The Hot Rod genes kicked in when I got to the engine compartment though. I had Tim at "Gen III" start with a bare block and build me about as "high performance" modified a T engine as you can get without going overhead valve.

The "T" guys look at my car and see a nice ol "T" with dings and scratches and rust holes in the fenders. Sure, it's got a distributor and a 12V alternator and a few other odds and ends like that but it looks like a Model T, it drives like a Model T and it sounds like a Model T.
The Hot Rodders look at my car and at first, don't see anything, until I start talking "our" language and tell them, the little green engine is "blueprinted", balanced, has stainless valves & seats, adjustable lifters, a high lift cam, aluminum pistons, aluminum intake manifold, modified NH carb, high compression head, lightened flywheel and a whole lot more.

The "purists" cut me some slack when I tell them that the original, #'s matching engine (running when I pulled it out), is packaged in a crate, complete with coils, starter, generator, carb, plugs, wires, the works and there isn't any modification on the car that can't be returned to original in a couple weeks work.

You want a Hot Rod? Go buy a fiberglass "T bucket" body and a tube frame, slap something outrageous like a "Hemi" in it, (that's what my last "T" was), leave the old cars alone.
[IMG]http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/olfart100/ModelT009.jpg[/IMG]


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr. on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 03:55 am:

Unfortunately, the Discovery show last night brought sadness to my son and myself as it demonstrated the network’s lack of respect for American history.

In a time and year when the Ford Model T, a true first American product is celebrating its centennial, for the Discovery Channel this could, would, and should have been a great time to recognize the importance of what Henry Ford did with his inginuity and determination for America and the world. The Ford Model T unequivocally changed the world in many ways.
And to add insult to injury, the Discovery show was produced in Detriot, Michigan, the very place where the Ford Model T and Henry Ford’s automotive industry was born. The same industry that for most of its 100 years has prospered and provided good jobs and oportunities for many generations of Americans.

Orlando


Ford Model T – The Car of the Century. The world’s most influentual car of the 20th century.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 04:29 am:

One more thing. The folks in the Model T community have been absolutely great to me.
I can build a Hot Rod in my sleep but trying to keep a Model T going for more than a block without the wheels falling off? Now that's a challenge.
If the DISCOVERY Channel wanted to "discover" something interesting, they would take a bunch of Muscle Car "Gear Heads", put them in front of a "T" that's been sitting in a garage for at least 15 years like mine was, and tell them "OK, make this thing driveable with what you see in front of you".
It would be great fun to watch them learn the things that I had to learn. Like how to how to run into your garage door while you're trying to figure out the transmission, or the fact that the crank will come back and bite you if you forget to retard the spark, or the rear wheels will fall off if you don't keep the hub nuts tight, Thankfully, I had you guys, so I didn't have to learn that one first hand but we wouldn't give them that advantage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 09:05 am:

Uh,if I were 1 or more of the head knockers of either T club,I would be looking at kicking this so called "GURU" out of the clubs.As a paying member of MTFCA,I dont honestly feel like he represents what the club is for and makeing his memebership known during something like this is degradeing to say the very least.
That aint even a decent looking hotrod.That is rolling scrap.There can be decent looking well built hotrods.But that sure as heck aint 1.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 09:47 am:

I agree Mack. I can't believe they destroyed that beautiful, pristine '26 Tudor to wind up with the piece of crap "hot rod" they rushed to create for a bunch of tools! Approprate or not, Judas comes to mind. What a tragic waste! And to think that a "Model T Guru" (What a crock!) was involved. He probably provided the car and was allowed to be on TV as a reward! What a despicable traitor! I hope the gravity of what he has done haunts his dreams, every night, for the rest of his life! If he was a true Model T'er it will, for it haunts me and breaks my heart.

Everytime one of these, destructive, disrespectful, shows comes on, glorifying the desecration of an original, historic, classic car, for something "COOLER", you can bet it will signal the end of at least a dozen or more pre 1940 classic vintage cars, nationwide, as every wannabe hotrodder tries their hand at emmulating what they saw on tv, only to succeed in completely destroying an irreplacable relic that, up until then, was original from the factory.

In our town of Bartow, Florida, one must have a permit to cut down a Grandfather Oak tree or renovate a historic house. While I hate big government and unnecessary regulation, I would welcome the same type of nationwide permit requirement to alter any original pre-1940 car from its' original state. There are too few remaining for us to continue to allow this senseless and tragic waste to happen! Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 09:56 am:

I gave up on television long ago. Most everything on there is total crap.

For those of you with blood pressure problems, a good New Years resolution might be to never turn that thing on again.

Happy New Year

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Stinson on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 10:22 am:

Incase anyone hasent noticed,The challenge was to race the ''Model T guru''(aka : mentally deficient person) in a 26' roadster to the finish line and to win ?

Why could they not take the body off,fit a OHV and a ruckstell?,money and time saved.

Well,i guess they are Tv producers...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 10:24 am:

To quote Orlando Ortega.

"for the Discovery Channel this could, would, and should have been a great time to recognize the importance of what Henry Ford did with his inginuity and determination for America and the world. The Ford Model T unequivocally changed the world in many ways.
And to add insult to injury, the Discovery show was produced in Detriot, Michigan, the very place where the Ford Model T and Henry Ford’s automotive industry was born. The same industry that for most of its 100 years has prospered and provided good jobs and oportunities for many generations of Americans."


The underlying intent, of the first show, is to show the rebuilding of Detroit. The Model T represents, first car, in the capitol of the auto industry. In a weak attempt, to reincarnate the show, "Monster Garage", the Discovery Channel destroyed a piece of history. It is without a doubt, that some old rusty car body shell, could have been used for this show, not the destruction of a fine car.

Maybe the Discovery Channel needs to get a few of their disfunctional families/companies into therapy. How about donating that chassis to the organization thats building a WWI ambulance?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 10:29 am:

Seth,that is good advice.I must admit I allready sorda follow it because I only watch Dr.House and news and weather on the onair tv.I wont pay for tv service.It aint worth it.
Jim,I aggree 100% with ye.I dispise goverment control for the most part.But there should be something similar to what you mentioned nationwide to protect our history.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim from ModelTengine.com on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 10:43 am:

William I sent you a PM, let me know if you don't get it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Budreau on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:09 pm:

My guess is that the producers are eatting this up. This discussion is probably adding fuel to their fire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard D. Dennis on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:17 pm:

I just watched Jim Patrick's link above and had an idea. Watch the beginning and write down the sponsors names, they are the ones that should be contacted and boycotted. I'd be willing to bet they care ALOT more about what we think than the Discovery Channel who probably just feed off the controversy. Maybe they could be persuaded to make amends to history by contributing to the very clubs they've just offended. Just an idea that maybe someone with a better journalistic ability than mine can run with??

Howard Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:55 pm:

Howard, good idea! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vince M on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:57 pm:

I agree Howard.

Vince m


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 01:55 pm:

Most of you will want to bypass the following ramblings of an old man:

Let's not get down on the hot-rodders--they're entitled to their hobby too. T-buckets and fire-breathing '32 roadsters are part of American automotive history, regardless of whether they happen to be my cup of tea. My objection is that the Discovery Channel--besides being boring and repetitive--destroyed a beautifully restored antique car (though I'd have been equally outraged had they mutilated an intact barn-find). For some reason, old Fords tend to become the target of these transformations--you don't see that kind of thing happening to Maxwells, Pierce-Arrows or Packards.

The hot rod boom got its start when American GIs returned home from WWII. Over 100,000 combat and trainer aircraft had been manufactured for the war effort. Likewise, there had been a furious production of jeeps, tanks and trucks. For four years, this unprecedented number of piston-powered vehicles was maintained by an even greater number of American boys (most combat aircraft having been assigned a crew chief and a number of subordinates as its ground crew). Their mean age was about nineteen. This profusion of young military mechanics returned from overseas to a post-war civilian world of abrupt but long-lasting, widespread unemployment where they had a lot of time on their hands and not much in particular to do with it.

The result might have been predictable.

Back in 1946, nobody thought of the Model T as an historic vehicle. Almost worthless, most of these worn-out cars had been recycled by the war's scrap-metal drives. In fact, right after the war ended, far more significant historical artifacts (Flying Forts, Lightnings, Thunderbolts, Hellcats, Wildcats-- you name it) were scrapped by the thousands. Likewise, virtually the entire PT-boat fleet had been torched. The smelters got most of the B-24 Liberators. Over 18,000 of these had been built--more than any American aircraft of any type ever made to this day--and now, only two or three survivors fly at airshows. In the post-war world, nobody cared about this stuff. It was all associated with the tragic memories of an all-too-recent world war. And nobody was going to care what happened to a bunch of old Fords that had been built in numbers eight-hundred times greater than the B-24.

Okay, so I know how we got to where we were back then, but today, things are different. Two weeks ago, I saw a sweetly restored '59 Fairlane going for almost 30-grand. Unbelievable. I remember when they were the lowest common denominator of cars. A mint '57 Chevy recently auctioned off for $71,000! The Discovery Channel certainly wouldn't have mutilated one of these expensive Concours cars for a low-budget TV show. And When Boyd Coddington, a man not known for preserving history, made a street-rod out of a '56 Chevy, he started with a rusted hulk from a junk yard, not a pristinely restored treasure.

That's the difference.

I understand why the Discovery Channel selected a restored Model T for destruction--the shock value of defacing its beauty (and in a world where so many people listen to Howard Stern and watch Jerry Springer, that kind of thing shouldn't be surprising), combined with the relatively low cost of its acquisition. The average television viewer saw a priceless antique car being sacrificed, but you and I know that a nicely restored Model T, the most significant car in American history and certainly at least as rare as the aforementioned Fairlane and Bel Air, can be purchased for prices in the $10-12,000 range. The Ford Model T, as the biggest bargain in the world, is also the world's best-kept secret. I don't know why that is. On one hand, this is discouraging, yet there is the avaricious part of me that can't wait to buy a nice 1915 Touring for a song.

Guess I'll take the good with the bad.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 02:19 pm:

Jim Patrick's post summed it up nicely, Bob Coiro's points are well taken, and the rest of the comments in this thread clearly show what side we're on. The fact is, we can jump up and down, write letters, boycott, or whatever, and we're not going to convince the hot-rodders to give up their "habit". So the question is, how will you keep your rolling history out of the hands of the hot-rodders?

My wife and I have discussed this. We fully expect our cars to outlive us. The only thing we've come up with is to specify in the will that when the time comes, the cars will only be sold through ads in Vintage Ford, the Horseless Carriage Gazette, or an equivalent appropriate national magazine. That doesn't guarantee they'll be preserved, but it's better than turning them over to an executor who may or may not share your belief in preservation. It can also dicey when there's family involved.

So (trying to be constructive here) how will you save your car from the knuckle-draggers on Motor City Motors and the like? I'd love to hear some other ideas...

- Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Scott on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 04:12 pm:

I'm sorry to say I caught the first few minutes of the show, just long enough to realize that the group wasn't compentent to attempt a rod conversion. 30 minutes on the internet would have netted them every component required, including a frame.
Not trying to side with the show, they had the right to do with their purchase. Was it intelligent, no; was it show worthy, maybe to the hot rod wannabes.
They had their moment to shine and they failed, and this may be the way they have done everything in their life.
They are diffenently not management material, and at that I would have a hard time positioning them at custodial position.

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rice on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 04:19 pm:

Thanks Bruce. I have inherited grandpa's '20 touring=>pickup he bought new. Our T's not going anywhere.

I'm teaching my 3 year old how to care for it, and she'll give it a loving pat anytime she's in the garage and relishes going for rides and shows.

Our T is not in my will, it is provided for by my will, and when I pass it will have its own care account!

I think the next generation is the key!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 05:36 pm:

With this thread in mind I was watching a episode of a TV show called "Overhauled". At least I think that was the name. It had been recorded so I don't know when it was aired.
Jay Leno was in it as a cameo appearance, more or less. The jist of the show is that you have someone who has an old ca that needs a "freshening up", and it gets done on the sly.
This one was a 57 Nomad that was the pride and joy of the owner but was in orignal un-altered condition. He was led to believe it was stolen while he was on vacation. It looked pretty good from a distance but wasn't really as good as you might think.
The floor pan was swiss cheese and ther was a lot of rust that showed up after it was blasted.

When the show started I thought "What am I not going to like about this?"
After the car was done and the end result was there. I just about cried with the owner when the car was unveiled to him. I guess since it was such a mess and needed so much to get it road worthy, and it was the owners long time dream, I was touched by his reaction.
This was not something I would have done but it was tastefully executed and other than the wheels looked pretty much stock. Lots of patch panels in there.

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDaniel (Indiana Trucks) on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 06:20 pm:

I thought I would post here my response to the video I just watched linked above. I remember as a kid wanting to build a hot rod like I saw everyone eles do but I was different because I saw history in old cars before it was to late. I built my hot rods out of 1977 Chevettes and what ever else I found that I could dress up to turn heads. If you can turn heads in a Chevette then you have realy done something to get noticed!

My post below from the Motor City web site;

"I always wanted a nice original model T to play with and when I found my 1926 tudor it was no where near as nice as that car was. They only built that car for 1926 and a few months into 1927 so there are very few of them left and now we have even less of them. Shows like this will inspire every hot rod builder without a clue to go out and chop up the rest of them and also countless more historic and more rare cars and trucks. When I was 16 I found the body of a 1925 Indiana Motor Truck in the loft of a barn and wanted to make a street rod out of it because that is what I had seen done with old cars. After I started working on it I found out it was a one of kind truck and changed my mind. 30 years later I have and all original one of a kind truck that I bet none of you have ever heard of or seen and never would have if I had done what I thought would be “cool” back then. Thank god I didn’t do it."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Hamlin on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 07:30 pm:

I have to agree with Bob Coiro.
Rodders do have th right to their hobby.
I think, however, it has gotten to the point where the mods make the original car unrecognizable. Furthermore, I think it's lazy to just toss in small block chevy running gear.
When I was 15 my Dad gave me a 1929 Model A Murray bodied Town Sedan.
I worked on it day & night. I never thought about 'rodding it'.
By the time I got my driver's license, it was finished & I drove it to school for the remainder of my school years.
After several years I got a wild hair & traded it for a Mustang GT & a 29 Model A basket case pickup. Never did restore that pickup & sold it.
Years later a bunch of my friends were building 'rods' & I decided I needed one.
I bought a 1935 Dodge 2dr sedan.
Not a real sought after collector car.
I powered it with a Dodge 318 V8 & had all the modern bells & whistles.
I left the body & interior as it was originally with all the chrome trim & original gauges.
I had fun with it for over ten years.
Then I found my T & everything changed.
I would never dream of rodding that.
The Dodge now has a new home & I find myself watching for another brass car.
If only all 'rodders' could get the same 'enlightenment'
Mark

dodge


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RICK NELSON on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 09:08 pm:

When history is destroyed, it is just the past…. but when it is preserved it is saved for all.


If any horses watched this show I bet they were glad someone invented cars!!
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Jamison on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 10:04 pm:

When I first saw the auto building shows on cable, I thought they would detail the process, give pointers and explain the mechanics of old and new cars and bikes. Instead, they focus on phony personality conflicts between the participants and other "reality show" cliches. I've never seen a careful legitimate restoration project on any of these shows. The reason is simply that the producers want to appeal to a large, general audience and see a really informative show lacking in drama and mass appeal. It would also take a lot longer to film.

Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim from ModelTengine.com on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 10:25 pm:

"power block" on Spike every weekend - horsepower, trucks, extreme 4x4. All good shows that explain how things are done as they do it with no BS. and - they don't build crap or destroy cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 10:30 pm:

I used to like "Orange County Chopper". I actually learned something about bodywork in watching them form gas tank halves and fenders from scratch with an english wheel, but the jealosy, yelling, ranting and abuse of bully, Paul Teutul Senior toward, his talented son Paul Jr. got to be too much to bear for both Paul Jr. and me. Paul, Jr. quit working for his abusive Father and I quit watching as the drama got to be too much. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Nugent on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 10:33 pm:

Chop Cut Rebuild is a good show that focuses on the build process and details and issues surrounding a restoration. It is a bit short and they do tend to bolt on rather than repair - but worth a watch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 11:13 pm:

Jim Patrick. I both agree, and disagree with you. I loved "American Chopper" for the fabrication that they showed, and the passion that went into building the bikes. As for Paul Jr though. I would have fired him. He has no self discipline at all. Lots of talent and ability, but no self discipline. The negatives, far outweigh the positives. Paul Sr, a bit of a bully? No. Just a man trying to run his company.

Thats only my opinion though. Its value is based on what you paid for it. BTW. I do own, and run, my own company.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By peter kable on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 03:39 am:

"Down Under" we are getting a bit of this type of activity from hot rodders. This year our club has had 2 fully restored nice Model T's purchased by what turned out to be "hot rodders" who only wanted the bodies. They purchased the cars removed the bodies as they had a good straight body to then work on, saving them having to buy a old shell or a repo fibreglass body and do all the work required to get it workable. A good restored T body with all the fittings, doors that fit and close properly so all one has to do is change the color or upholstery if its not to your liking is a lot easier than starting from scratch.

So one purchases a 26 tudor for around $15000 removes the body, guards radiator, hood, running boards and sells on the remains for $3000.

Lost one original restored 26 Model T, one hot rod emerges and someone gets a T chassis to build a replica body of some sort or purchaes a shell and does the hard yakka.

Seems if its worth it for the hot rodders to go this way we are selling our T's way too cheap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 09:16 am:

Good morning Thunder. I too run a company and agree and disagree with you. I know Paul Senior was trying to run his business, but he is a bully and a control freak who is long on insults and short on praise and never passes up an opportunity to assert his authority, by, for instance, shutting down the daily shop operations just to have his talented team completely clean up the shop and put away tools when there was valuable work to be done. Any reasonable businessman could see the logic in hiring teenagers to work part-time to do that type of menial work at the end of each work day while utilizing his workforce to continue with billable work.

You are right in that Paul Jr. was undisciplined, sometimes arriving late, but but the good far outweighed the bad, especially in terms of the show they were trying to do. If you recall, back when the show was good, Paul ,Jr. was the one that patiently explained what he was doing, why and how he was doing it and his plans for each project and it was obvious that his fellow workers respected him and looked to him for his leadership and experience. It was also obvious that they did not like or respect Paul Senior and his loudmouth, heavyhanded way of forcing his old school design ideas into each project, even when Paul Jr's ideas were better. Back to discipline...what young kid is not undisciplined. Everyone must learn discipline through maturity and experience. It took the Marine Corps. to instill discipline in me. Paul, Jr, is however, talented, very passionate and loved his work and what Father would not love and take pride in such a son who wants to follow in his footsteps instead of allowing his jealousy of his son's youth, rapport with the other workers and talent to come between him and his son. Blood should be thicker than water and override the need to control and overpower.

Sometimes with very talented employees (artisans, if you will) that you need, you must take the bad with the good and try and teach through example, have frequent counselling sessions and management meetings to address the problems, rather than constantly rant and rave, which destroys the morality of the shop which causes the business and the TV show to suffer. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 09:51 am:

Point taken Jim. Thanks. Maybe its because I was raising a teenager, with our own disagreements, that I failed to truly understand "passion". Without a doubt, it was Jr's designs, that made them what they are. I watch it now, just to see which way the whole thing will go.

But lets get back to this Model T thing. What ever happened to the chassis?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 10:44 am:

I think there was a discussion on whether or not to cut (chop) down the Tudor body. I think the one worker who was trying to persuade the other workers not to chop the body down was thinking that, if the body was not chopped, they could put the Model T back into original shape after the project was done and the hot rod was delegated to the scrap heap. Now THAT, would have made the show worthwhile! Unfortanately he lost and the body was chopped which prevented the Tudor from ever becoming a beautiful original Model T again. Too bad. Jim Patrick


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