Exhaust Nut Question Again

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Exhaust Nut Question Again
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard Tobias on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 05:37 pm:

I have what is probably a "silly" elementary question about the exhaust union nut at the manifold. When you are standing by the car on the manifold side, do you push the exhaust wrench up or down to loosen it? I took the manifold loose from the engine and I can't line it back up with the tailpipe hanging on it. I don't want break anything. I figure I'm going to have to hold the manifold with a BIG monkey wrench.
Howard


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 05:47 pm:

It's lefty loosie,righty tighty. Up to loosen down to tighten. Be very careful with the pipe wrench. Those old exhausts break like glass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Perigo on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 05:50 pm:

Jack,

Does it work the same in Australia???????? Inquiring minds want to know!!!

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 08:40 pm:

If you are standing with your back to the rear of the car and facing tothe front of the car, and you put the wrench on with the handle pointing to the right, you will pull up to loosen and down to tighten.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:21 pm:

Mike, All bets are off with our Southern friends!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:31 pm:

Norman - I think that in Australia, you push up to loosen and pull down to tighten. And it's pretty hard to do, because you have to do it with only one hand, because you have to hang on with the other hand so you don't fall off the earth! I know this because I have relatives in Australia and they tell me how hard these things are to do down there, and I know they'd never kid me about those things!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:34 pm:

Norman - I think that in Australia, you push up to loosen and pull down to tighten. And it's pretty hard to do, because you have to do it with only one hand, because you have to hang on with the other hand so you don't fall off the earth! I know this because I have relatives in Australia and they tell me how hard these things are to do down there, and I know they'd never kid me about those things!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 09:35 pm:

Oops! Once was enough, right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 11:01 pm:

On a right hand drive Model T, is the exaust manifold on the right side or on the left side? This thread sparked my curiosity since I've never seen under the hood of one and was just wondering if everything under the hood is reversed to make room for the steering shaft and lever rods. How about the choke rod? Throttle and spark lever linkages? Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:18 am:

Jim,

No, the intake and exhaust manifold along with the muffler for a stock Model T are always on the same side (passenger side for a LHD car and Driver's side for a RHD car). That is one way you can tell in a photo if the photo is reversed or not. I.e. the manifolds and exhaust do not change on the stock T. Below is a 1926 Australian RHD that uses Canadian chassis and Australian assembled body with more wood than the USA or Canadian bodies.

1

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:28 am:

If one read the book about the english Model T, you will learn all the troubles they had in Manchester to get room for the steering coloumn in the right side of the engine compartment. Actually the first UK assembled cars was LHD until they figured out how to redesign various pieces to make room.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:14 pm:

Michael,

You are correct that both Ford Motor Company Canada and Ford Motor Company England both were faced with a challenge when Ford USA redesigned the Model T Engine block to include the generator in 1919. The location of the generator did not allow the previous Right Hand Drive (RHD) steering brackets to fit and function properly when a generator was also installed. While Ford USA had produced some RHD cars in the past they did not really need to produce them – the USA market was their major target audience. But both Canada and England had routinely produced many RHD cars up until then and so they were faced with a problem. Either come up with a way to have both RHD and the generator or offer only left hand drive.

The two companies approached it quite differently. In Canada who exported to all the British Commonwealth countries except Ireland and Britain, they came up with a temporary belt driven generator mounted on the opposite side of the engine from the standard timing gear location. And shortly there after they developed a new steering gear to frame bracket that allowed them to use the USA generator location along with the RHD steering.

1

But as pointed out on page 136 of “The English Model T Ford” the Americian trained leadership/managers in Britain decided instead to only offer Left Hand Drive (LHD) Model Ts from around Oct 1919 to Jan 1923. Then Britain reintroduced the RHD English Model T. That one was not one of their “better ideas.”

Some additional notes:

And as often is the case, when looking at this one I ran across a 1921 Owners Manual published by Ford Motor Company (England) Trafford Park. It shows both the LHD and RHD front seat with the levers and switches labeled. However, the RHD is the early picture with the key on the coil box switch and the LHD has the instrument panel and the switch on the instrument panel. Both LHD and RHD have cowl lights which in the USA would indicate they were not equipped with a starter. I don’t know how that worked in England. Neither shows a starter switch – but the seat blocks viewing where the starter switch would be located. I suspect (guess) it is a picture from a previous owner’s manual.

Ford Motor Company England began production at Trafford Park – the exact date it started is debated but they moved there in the Fall of 1911 and began production of RHD cars when they started. Prior to their own production Ford Motor Company England imported completely assembled RHD. The very earliest 1909 Model Ts imported to England were apparently only LHD but later were imported as RHD as production increased in the USA plant.

“The English Model T Ford” is a good read – lots of interesting details such as the lack of a driver’s front door but on the right hand side rather than the left hand up until around 1918 sometime (ref page 134). So if you took a USA left hand panel and an English right hand panel you could construct a pre 1918 with no front door. All the while the Canadian cars had both front doors always working – so they could use any body either for left or right hand drive. “The English Model T Ford” book is advertised on our MTFCA supplier’s page with the following description: This 272 page book is devoted to the history of the Model T in Britian. Many differences which were specific to the Manchester England plant are outlines with detailed photos, including right hand drive models. The book is excellent quality comparable to Bruce McCalley's book The Car that Changed the World. Profits help support the Model T Club of Great Britian. It is $60 plus shipping. To order call Jennifer Lilleker at 979-218-4083 or email at sales@mrmodelt.com
And additional details on the book at: http://www.modeltbook.co.uk/

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 12:39 pm:

It has become almost cult among danish Model T entusiasts as it turned out there is a few "mysterious" low 1925 Model T's around as well as some have some "mysterious" front axles with strange spindles.
When I read "The English Model T Ford" book, I found out that the UK folks made a 3" lower frame in 1924 (I think it was - I do not have the book handy right now) and at the same time the book talk about export. Now right across the North Sea we have Denmark, so I wondered if any of the UK manufactured Model Ts have made it to the assembly plant in Copenhagen.
A quick check in the 1930 Parts catalog I have revealed that in 1925 there is a suite of parts suffixed with DF = Deep Frame = the low UK frame.
There we had the explanation. In 1925 some of the 3" lower frames - called Deep frame - made their way to the Scandinavian Market via the assembly plant in Copenhagen and a few of them have survived.

You may say that the UK management team made some strange decisions around the LHD/RHD, but they definately also did something that was later adopted on the US plants. For example UK started up spraypainting the bodies with Pyroxlin paint (Cellulose paint) 2 or 3 years before they did in Dearborn. And you could say they also showed the way of mproving the Model T making it lower better fit for the roads in the late 20's (even in the US) though the US version was only 1 1/2" lower.
I must try to find out what might be saved of records from the Copenhagen plant as it could be interesting to find out what mix of cars they have made since they apparently was sourced from multiple (at least two) different sources. And some of the materials was procured locally.


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