Front Axle / Crossmember tilt

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Front Axle / Crossmember tilt
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Kiefaber on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:02 pm:

I need some advice. After installing my front springs I noticed a slant towards the rear of the car. Once my front axle was on it was very bad. I don't think the perches are on wrong, but I don't see a way of correcting this. The tilt was there before the axle was installed. Is my front cross member bent? I have included photos. Any thoughts...Please



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:20 pm:

I would say the car has bumped something in it's long life and the crossmember has a bad lean to the back.I would think takeing the spring back out and perhaps a couple large pipe wrenchs and 2 stout men could probably bring it back straight. I find on alot of frames,the front and back downward pointing parts will have a spread about them and have to be closed up a bit.But your intire crossmember is leaning back.
With the concern over oil pan strenght the other week on another thread,I would think this would put a strain on the pan and engine as a whole.I would address this before going further with the assembly.Your backward lean should be created by the perchs in the axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:23 pm:

your axle looks backwards. Are the bosses on the spring pearch toward the rear?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:24 pm:

your axle looks backwards. Are the bosses on the spring pearch toward the rear? Also,did you have to lift the front wishbone a lot to bolt it up? Could be in upside down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Kiefaber on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:26 pm:

Jack, there are no bosses on these perches as on my other cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:32 pm:



The pitch is normal. It provides the caster necessary to aid in steering control. When the tires are mounted, you will also notice the wheels are closer at bottom than the top. This is camber built into the spindles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:35 pm:

Robert,set the axle upright on a flat surface and set a pencil in the wishbone hole. Whichever side the pencil is lowest,is the front of axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:38 pm:

Ops, sorry. We're talking about two different things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:41 pm:

I may have led you a bit astray. Put the pencil in the spring perch hole. Sorry about that. You will very clearly see the tilt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Kiefaber on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:45 pm:

Okay, That explains part of my problem. I have the perches on backwards. Since there was no boss to indicate the correct position, I thought the lower end was to the rear. Thanks Jack!, and everyone else. Hopefully it will be the right pitch. If not I will try Macks bending technique. Learning something new all the time, this forum is a lifeboat!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:45 pm:

I agree with Jack. The back side of the perch has a beveled hole where the radius rod(above the axle) slides in. The front of the perch is a straight hole . Check I think the perches are backward giving you that slant. If this is not the case find two strong guys like Mack suggested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Kiefaber on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:48 pm:

btw...Since my perches have no bosses what would be thier vintage?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:50 pm:

I have the bending bar from an old dealership,but it would take several big boys to bend an axle very far! I've actually stood on it and it made very little difference in the axle. What you are really doing is bending the front wishbone where it attaches to axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:54 pm:

Jack,
That is because you are a skinny old F@rt. I bet if I stood on the bar the axle would move. LOL

Paula


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:56 pm:

Maybe, if you had Uncle Stan help you....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:57 pm:

Robert,
No bosses mean a different company forged them for Ford, they came both ways I've read.. I beleive there was a thread on this a year or so ago. What year model is your Ford?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Bunner on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 12:27 am:

Axle is definitely backwards... also, you'll need to swap the speedometer spindle arm to the other side once turned around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Kiefaber on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 12:28 am:

Warren, early 16


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 12:29 am:

For the early style perch: if you were able to install the wishbone when the perches were installed backwards, then the male ends of the wishbone and/or the female sockets of the perches are worn.

The male ends of the radius rod and the female sockets of the perches are slightly tapered and designed to fit accordingly.

I believe the "boss" can only be found on the later style of perch (radius rod under axle), not on the earlier style of perch (radius rod over the axle).

Erik Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 12:49 am:

Here are some photos of the early perches with the boss and machine center outlined.





Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 12:55 am:

Be sure you have the spindles correct. Right side ie Left Hand Threads.

It's illogical, until you really think it through. It's about the jam nut.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 01:08 am:

ERic,I have a set of pearches from about 1919-20 era,Ford script with wishbone under the axle and they have no boss on them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 09:07 am:

Folks,are you all sure that dang crossmember aint bent?I want to see a picture of the crossmember without the axle attached to the spring.All the tilt should be in the axle,not the crossmember shouldnt it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Fultz on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 01:12 pm:

Frame,pearches,greasecups, ..phooey. That axle is in backwards. Flip it around end for end and then check it. The top of the spindles must lean backwards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Fultz on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 01:17 pm:

Go STEELERS...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garry Potter on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 02:59 pm:

Does the front radius rod (wishbone) have a right side up. Does it matter which side is up or down and how would I identify.
Jack Daron mentions in the above thread that Robert's wishbone may be in upside down
Please advise
Thanks
Garry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 05:24 pm:

Radius rod top and bottom is same on early cars, later under the axle type had a top and a bottom.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 06:04 pm:

True,Warren,but if it came off that car and had been bent up or down,to get the axle where it should be,it sould go back the same way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garry Potter on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 09:08 pm:

Warren
Thanks for the clarification. My car is a 1913 touring. I could not see any difference from top to bottom so I just put it in the way I felt.
Garry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Kiefaber on Sunday, February 01, 2009 - 03:51 pm:

Thanks to all! I am once again humbled by this machine. The perches were on backwards, and now it has been corrected. Everything now looks as it should . Having no bosses as a guide threw me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charles kenneth gibbard on Sunday, February 01, 2009 - 05:23 pm:

I have several axels ,and they are all
the same will go on either way .But the perches
wont.They are left and right handed.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration