I will be researching and eventualy haveing a shop built.about 30x40 or 30x50 with concrete floor.Still aint decided on wood or metal construction but leaning toward metal.
1 thing I want in the shop is floor anchors.
I remember seeing them in a shop picture once.There was chain links somehow attached into the concrete floor and you could chain a chassis down and straighten it.
What is this called or refered to as? I cant fiqure out the proper name and everything I punch into google comes up with something like used in a Hilti gun.I am wanting to learn what to do to build something,put it in the ground then the concrete will get poured around it.You waddle up to the thing in the floor and flip up a chain link and hook to it.
I am trying to learn how deep to set them,how big they should be and so on.
Any ideas, or terms to use in google?
I aint ready for this yet,but I am wanting to start talking to folkes that do gradeing and concrete work and this is something I want instaled in the floor as it is being put in so it would affect priceing I am sure.
Mack, many ways to do it. Alot depends on your soil. A mobile home anchor embedded into the ground with a chain welded on is one way. Another is to weld a chain to a bar or plate and enclose the chain in a piece of pipe that extends out through the concrete (pipe makes a form). Truthfully, I don't feel like they are worth the effort as I have a couple in one shop --and a frame machine brackets anchored in another. They always seemingly are in the wrong location for what I am wanting to do. Hopefully others will chime in too.
I believe I understand your idea. I'm thinking, however, that simpler might be better.
Part of my thinking is that you might have a hard time determining ahead of time EXACTLY where these anchors should be.
Another part of my thinking is the difficulty, and expense, of having them built into the slab. I mean, what if one of them falls over while the concrete is being poured? Or ends up sticking up enough to trip you every time you waddle by?
Your idea of flipping up a thingy that's folded down in the slab is elegant, but unless you are in the business of straightening frames for a living, it seem like a bit of overkill.
And what if you get a different car with a different size frame, or need to pull something else in a different way?
My suggestion would be to spend a bit more to make sure your slab is a MINIMUM of 4" thick - 5" is better.
Then, get yourself a medium-to-large Hilty drill, and a bit the correct size to make a hole for an expansion anchor that will accept a 5/8" or even a 3/4" bolt.
Then, when you need a floor anchor, you take an hour to drill a hole, blow it out clean, drop in an anchor, and screw in a bolt.
When you're done with that anchoring point, you can try to lever the anchor out of the hole (depends on the type of anchor), then mix up some mortar and smooth the floor back over. If you put a cork in the anchor before mortaring over it, you can re-open it in about 10 minutes at a later date.
It seems to me this gives you a good bit more flexibility than installing something in the slab, and at a far less cost.
The only disadvantage I can think of, is that the type of anchors I am thinking of are great for sideways pull, but not so great for upward pull. That might be a consideration.
I don't know about the anchors but do have an opnion on your construction type; I built a traditional steel sided pole barn at my old place and certain times of the year everything would "sweat" up really bad--I could towel off the cars as they were dripping with water.
At my current house I again built a "pole barn" but once the posts were up (and trusses set,etc)I nailed on OSB (chip board) and then covered it with vinyl siding to match the house. The expense was about the same but everything stays dry and I never get any condensation.
If you do go with steel you would probably need to insulate it then put some type of interior wall covering on and that would add up lots of expense unless you plan on doing that anyway to heat it.
Thanks for the input.I am hopeing to heat it so insolation is something i am hopeing for.
I have my 47 pontiac in a A@S building right now about 12 miles from here.Metal frame,metal sideing with insolation everywhere except for the 4 skylights.They work well but sweat on whatever is under them.
They're called Floor Anchor Pots. You can get them with a base plate that are used for new-pour concrete or you can get them plain that you drill the hole for old concrete installations. And Brent is right--You can have 10-30 pots and it seems you always need more on occation. But they are nice. The cap overs the hole when not in use and you're not tripping over floor plates or permanent loops. Unless you plan to do a lot of frame straightening, 4-6 pots are enough to anchor a frame/car and make pulls front and side for the occasional work in most cases. You just might have to relocate the car for some other pulls.
Another shop thought is to add an "H" or a couple of "I" footers where you might add a two-post lift in the future. You can get by with a 4-5" shop slab but most lifts require at least 6". The footers will allow you add a lift later. (Given some location thought.)
I have seen it where there are simple four corner places to mount stuff to the floor. Usually just a chunk of 2" bar buried in the concrete vertically with a 3/4 or so tapped hole. Most done this way are tack welded to the rebar before the pour.
I have also seen like Peter recommends and just core drill as needed. Some patch them when done, some leave as swiss cheese after a while
The slickest of all that I have seen is where they just run two pieces of C-channel, mounted leg to leg facing with a 3/4 or 1" gap along the length of the bay. Weld some hockey stick shaped rebar to the outside and set it level and pour around it.
You can then either 'hook' on the lip as needed, or drill a few big holes here and there in the flange to drop in eye bolts with 1/4" plate washers and slide them to where you want them to be for your leverage.
Mack, it sounds like the anchors you are talking about are like the kind that are on heavy equipment trailers. they are a pipe with a chain in them. they extend about 6" to hook another chain to. They have a cover/lid welded to the top link and they are flush mounted so you can sweep across them. You could weld a chunk of iron to the bottom of them for a (dead-man) and pour them in the concrete to grade.
Mack, In my body shop I have pots in the floor with what is called a "T" top so you drop a chain down into it and hook it. When not in use, it has a cover that slips in with nothing to trip over. They make 2 different styles, one that you put in after and one you install before the cement is poured. I put in the ones that are before the concrete is poured. They have legs welded to the bottom that are supposed to keep them standing up, but I didn't trust them from tipping over while the cement is poured.
To solve this, I figured out where I wanted them and layed down thin I beams in a rectangle and welded the legs to the beams. This kept them all the same height and in place. It took some time, but as with anything, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!
The brand is Mo-Clamp and any parts store should be able to look them up for you. Mine were 65.00 each. Mo-Clamp makes tons of frame equiptment and chain. Speaking of chain, depending on how hard you are going to pull, be sure to use the right chain for the job! We use 10 ton hydraulics so safety is key. We also throw a welding blanket over the chains while we are pulling incase of a failure. To share a little trick, if you don't have an anchor exactly where you need it, you can run a chain from one anchor to another and then hook ito that chain where you need it. There again, as long as you are using the right chain for the job. Sorry for being lengthy, but we put alot of thought into doing this and it worked out great. If you would like, I can post a pic of what it looks like in the floor. Good luck, Paul
I had a shop one time that was used by the previous owner as a welding and truck repair shop. He poured two railroad rails in the floor, flush with the top of the floor. When he needed a hook, he would weld one to the rail at exactly where he needed it. When he was done, he cut it off and ground it back smooth. He straightened dump truck frames with this system. He also used it as two parallel, perfectly level points when welding frames or other projects. I thought it was pretty ingenious and was never in the way for other uses.
Insulating the floor with 6 ml plastic, 2 inch styrofoam and 4 inches of crushed rock to wick away the the water will go a long way to keeping the floor dry. Might also want to consider puting pex tubing in the floor for a future raidant floor heat. E-mail me off line if you have questions, we do lots of shop floors
Thanks again folkes.Paul you hit the nail on the head.that is the kind of thing I want to be able to do on as needed basis.
I have thought about that pex tubing to because I would like to use a wood heater outside and let it run water thru to heat.
It would be a safe way to heat it with wood without fear of fumes flameing up and sending me and my project to the moon.
I am not going to do alot of frame work.But I have a idea that since I am a titewad and I want a newer pickup,I might buy a wreck and repair it.For the learning experiance and such moreso than anything else.
Mack,Hindsight is 20-20 but at 14'6" top of floor to bottem of the trusses was too short,and i could have doubble decked part if i would have only went 16'! Floor anchors the Hilti drill is good but the brand of anchors that work best is Widget!! Drill your hole extra deep or through and simply hammer them flush/through if you want them gone.If it takes a hour to drill a hole with a Hilti drill you need to plug it in!! Before i started on the floor i had the local tiler go through and put in a 4" tile for a drain i hooked to the field tile.I think i welded 5 open center truck rims welded for a drain but round will lead to cracks so sq is better.!/8" per foot [city fall] is to much for inside so maby 1/16?? two or 4 parrell 6" wide flange H beams ?? 10' poured flush with the top of your concreate will let you build or anchor almost wherever you want.I also installed the pipes [leggs] for my overheads before i poured the floor 14' up and almost 6' down.Its hard to beat the twin overhead tram rails because we can lift anywhere in 24'X28' and simply pull to the side when not in use.Never use pipe in a doorway because water can run both ways.It sounds to me like MR Thomas knows his floors and i went 6 to 7" of 6 bag mix with re rod but that HD-21 was heavy and the 1500 B Insley was 5 ton more! I used one rail of a school bus frame in my doorway,it was its owne form and i never busted the edge of the cement.28'X48' was/is too small but like i said in my case Hindsight is 20-20.Bud.
well,I payed the 60 bucks for the water and septic inspection to be done in the morning.I think it is to make sure i aint building over the septic tank.I hope all goes well on that.It should.
I would like to ask input on something else.Kenneth has explained his over head beam and that is something else I would like to instal.Some type of over head lifting device.Is it better to put the "legs" in before the floor is poured?
Tell me about you all's over head lifting equipment.I need input.
I hope to use a electric hoist to pull engines and such.
I aint got my lathe yet,been tyed up and couldnt go git it.Hope to do that in the next few days.
Mack,I used 5 or 6" pipe for legs 20' long,6'down and 14' up.I welded flat plates to the top end drilled for clips to bolt the I beams on.If one wainted the storage you could weld plates on the bottem also to hold compressed air? After setting the legs and pouring the cement i had to cut bend and re weld the top flang of the I beam so it would conform to the angle of the roof.With 6 legs set 12' on centers i have a 12" and 2 15" I beams running even with the bottem of the trusses.Two one ton trolleys on 12' centers on a 6" I beam with two trolleys and chain falles on each trolley.The Heavy lift side uses only the 15" rails and with a spreader on each end has two 1 ton trolleys on each end with a 12" I beam! With two tram rails sharing the 3 overhead I beams i can cover a 24X 28' area of shop floor and i loose no space other than where the hoist are at the time.Bud.PS,Check with Frank about spelling of Trolleys?? Bud.
Bud, can we have a picture or two? That sounds like a good set-up.
thanks,I got thru that inspection and can go any time after in the morning to get my building permit.He literaly said he has to come to make sure I am 5 feet from the septic system and that it is working right.
Yep,passed that with flying colors.
He said if I wanted plumbing,that would open a whole new can of worms because we would have to tie in to the septic system.
I did ask him if a floor drain is considered plumbing,he said no,so I can put 1 in the middle so i can wash a car in there if I want to.
I want to get some prices on trusses before I firmly decide on size.
Hi Mack, When I put up my 40 by 80 building I had all the steel beams and roof but none of the sides. I used 8 inch concrete blocks and found it was the cheapest way to go. And the walls went up in three days and I was ready to move in. I did pour the blocks with concrete. Its warm in the winter, cool in the summer and it keep the thiefs out. 10 years later the walls still look great and it keep the noise in. Good luck, Scott
As a builder who fixed hundreds of fires one point to keep in mind is on heat.
Gas fumes go down to the floor So keep any spark source high. Six feet is the code as I remember on a garage. 18" on residential gas appliances. Oregon code.
I once smelled gas in my house soon discovered my catch pan under my T had about four gallons of gas in it because I did not shut it off after parking and the float developed a leak.
One spark and my T and house would have been cooked.
Also remember sheet rock will stop or contain many fires.
Steve,Im sorry to say my picture posting skills are like my spelling but if sent a e-mail i think i could send pictures that way?? For a sump i welded 5 open center truck rims [Dayton] togather and,tied into the drain tile,and set my floor fall to the top of the sump.In perfect hindsight im told square is less lickly to crack a floor than round?? The tile man had a laser controlled tile plow on a large Stiger and with 14X18ft doors on each end he went in one and out the other! Said it was the first time he ever tiled in a building! I put a 50 ton hook in the sump so i can use the overhead to pull up down or in or out.The oldest Grandson has been driving our 14 and Grandmaws model A but today he drove [his] 15 for the first time!! Opp's i just read my old post and i appoligize for telling about the tiler again!! Bud.
Opp's like i said my hindsight is perfect but i forgot to say the overhead also serviced my lathe, drill press,anvill,and on and on.Bud.
I have a 2-ton gantry crane on wheels. It's kind of "land-locked" at present but could be moved around the shop. Rather than having a fixed location like a beam, I can move the beam to the work. I use a 1300lb. electric hoist on it that covers just about all the car body lifting I do. If I need more than that, I can put a chain hoist on it.
Thanks fellows,I will be away from the computer a couple days.May cant post a reply till I git back but I will read the post when i return.
Ken there was a couple gantry cranes on a trailer for sale recently but I had no idea at the time I would live to be in a postion to build me a shop and never gave them a second thought.That would be enough for my needs as I mostly would like to be able to swap out a engine,or lift the front half of a tractor or whatnot.
Paul Nicholson,I would like to see photos of your floor anchors if possiable.
Michael F. Thomas,The pex tubeing,could you send a email or reply here for the others to read a quicky on how to install it and such? I am intrested in that for sure.I would mostly like to know about cost.I will be able to afford me a shop but I need to watch and not just spend out the wazoo if you know what I mean.
Radiant floors are one of the best ways to heat a shop that you are going to use everyday. If it is a shop that you only want to heat on weekends, it is not maybe your best choice. The reason being, it takes 2 days to heat up the floor and 2-3 days to cool off at winter temperatures. The advantages are numerous. Nothing like a nice warm floor to lay on while working on your car. No sweating floors or condensation in the shop. Very economical to heat compared to forced air heating. Boilers are usually wall hung and utilize outside air for combustion.
The 1/2 tubing is installed in 300 foot rolls, usually 12 inches on center. It is a special pex tubing with an oxygen barrier coating to prevent oxygen from passing thru the pipe into the boiler system. So, a 900 square foot shop would take 3 rolls of 300 foot tubing.
The floor needs to be insulated with 2 inches of styrofoam under the concrete. Tubing is then zip tied to the rebar or wire mesh 12 inches on center. The tubing is then attached to a manifold, which gets hooked to a boiler that will produce 120 to 140 degree water/glycol mix.
Tubing costs run $1.00 to $1.25 per foot. Boilers will run about $3500 to $4000. Installation costs are about $1500 to $2500, depending on your part of the country.
Some people will insulate the floor and install the tubing when they build the shop. They then install the boiler later. This spreads out the cost.
There are other little details that need consideration, but that is the short story.
One thing shure you cant hardly seem to use to much sand or raise the site to high! Bud.
My brother's uses an electric water heater and works great.
My neighbor just built a 36' x 60' then divided it with a wall and made a 36' X 30 shop. He was originally going to install a Reznor gas heater. By the time he bought a propane tank, hanging furnace, necessery venting etc., he was going to have a bunch of money in it. He just bought some electric base-board heaters. He has a separate meter for his heat and gets a reduced rate on that. He doesn't "live" in there in the winter and when It's below zero he doesn't spend much time there but if he needs to do an emergency repair, he does have heat.
I think a lot depends on what region you live in, how much time you spend in your shop and of course, the amount of money you want to spend. Everybody's needs are different.
Wow,I had no idea a radiant system cost so much!
Well the best I can fiqure is this for heat.
I have a Monitor 30 kerosene heater that cost me nothing that needs very minor repair.It was free and the repairman lives local.
So I will put that in the new shop I am building after repairs.
Along with a good woodstove with blower to use when there aint particals in the air to blow me to the moon.
I have so much firewood around here going to waste it is awful.I gave away 10 full loads,delievering most of it,when I cleared the lot for the shop.Just didnt need it.So it would be silly not to make use of wood heat I guess.
Mack, I know a couple of people who use wood heat with commercial shops near me an they are in those shops every day at least 8 hours. one of them has an oil drip that drips used oil in the fire box on the wood and it makes the wood last a lot longer and gets rid of his used oil. There is a very large shop in town that uses a waste oil furnace and he gathers oil from everybody who wants to get rid of it, plus the service jobs he does. It gets a lot colder here than where you live. I'm sure the wood heat would work out very well for you, especially in a rural area. Just my opinion.
They say it will get down to 43 tonight but Grandmaw says we will snuggle! We have a little over 200 bu of corn on hand so we are set for the winter.Bud.
Hey Bud, sounds like maybe next year you should only buy 150 bushel of corn, Know what I mean?
Most people don't realize it, but those old wood heaters in the corner of the shop feel so cozy because of the radiant heat not the hot air. A radiant floor creates the same feeling as the radiant part of the old wood burner in the corner. Most people like their house at 73 degrees with what we refer to as "scorched air", a regular forced air furnace. With radiant heat, they are just as comfortable at about 68 degrees. The other curious note, with radiant floor the air temperature remains constant floor to ceiling. With forced air it can be 80 degrees at the ceiling and 65 at the floor. My apologies if I am boring anyone, but radiant heat is one of my many interests.
Michael,You shure arnt boring me and a few farm shops here have the heat in the floor.I would think a combination of both would be the best?? Bud.
Having spent almost fifty years in the HVAC industry i agree with Micheal on radiant heat but the newer furnaces get rid of the old "scorched air" problem,the newer variable speed ECM motors run all the time at a very low speed mine costs $12.00 per yer to run constantly,so you don't get the stratified air and the air is continuously filtered,i use a small (6000) btuh infra-red radiant heater in my garage with a small low speed fan and it will make you open the door after a while.It does not get much below thirty here.
Well I am finally getting some folkes to come by and look at the place about giveing me prices to dig the footings,laying the 12 inch block and such.
You know you set out with a idea,and get all worked up about it and then ))#) happens that just drains your inthuseaism "spelling".
Well,to make a long story short,if you stand faceing the proposed building,consider the front right corner floor level.Then look to the back left hand corner.From what we can tell with the way I have things layed out,it will require 6 feet of fill dirt to get level with that front corner.
We had fiqured on laying 12 inch block up to a point that the concrete for the floor would sit-sink into the block.then go 8 inch block 4 foot above that to allow for a 8 foot studded wall for a total of a 12 foot ceiling.That left rear corner,would be 20 feet tall!
It would cost about 3200 bucks for the dirt to get the floor ready to pour!.
I had fiqured on 30x48 for a size.I am looking at downing that to 30x36 and putting my lathe and a couple other things in my small shed instead of the new shop.
Alot of desicions to make.And with my cognitive problems it is hard to absorb all of what people are telling me.I had a freind helping me out today to listen in and remember what I couldnt.I am going to take notes from now on!
I am going to talk to some other folkes about the possiablity of digging out part of the place,kinda like a basement.And see what that would require.
Here is the only photo I have the place I have cleared.I have in the past couple days,installed a shrub privacy barrier along the far side of the cleared area,running along the tree line with the gate.
The gate you see to the right,is up the hill a good bit.The front right hand corner of the shop will be about 20 feet to the left of the gate post.The doors will be faceing the driveway you see going thru the gate.
If some of you fellows have knowledge you could share and need better photos,let me know.
Mack,Sorry but i don't see it!! What i mean is i cant see how scraping off the top soil and filling to grade with sand could cost that much?? Shoulden't a normal pole barn be much cheaper than the 1/2 and 1/2 wall? If money is tight get your grade with fill sand and pour the floor after the building is up?? Those concreate trucks/front loaders are very handy putting it where it's needed! Bud.
Check out the prices at Menards. They offer pole barn packages at very reasonable prices. You should be able to build it for about $5/sq ft. (Not counting floor/heat/electric.
Mack, I've done grade work since 1979. I've built many machine shed pads, basements, ponds etc. As a matter of fact I'm working on one this week. It appears your contractor hauled away everything within your excavation. I'm not familiar with that type of layout, unless you are going to install a basement. The most bang for your buck would be a pole shed with a floating slab, which I'm sure would work great in your area. They do it up here in the frozen north with great results. If you wanted to "stick build" your building with footings they should have just leveled a sight then brought in a backhoe or trencher and dug the footings. I assume they hauled it away because there were tree roots in your excavation. It's always best if you can use available dirt on site. You could save yourself a lot of money if you rented a good sized skid-loader and borrowed some dirt from a nearby area if possible. I recommend a rubber tired vehicle instead of a tracked machine for compaction since your going to pour concrete.
You sure gotta consider grade when you plan a building. Not just for the foundation but also storm water flow. You don't want water running off your driveway and into your shop. The picture is too pixelated to tell but is the driveway paved or just compacted gravel? What's the slope like to the right? Have you considered lowering the drive and moving that soil/sand to the left? I can see the slope from the gate but it's hard to tell grade from where the picture was taken.
Borrow or rent a transit and lay your site out before starting anything. A site plan should be the first drawing you do.
The grade on the right does appear to drain into the building site which could be skimmed off and put into the hole but the problem with this site is all those trees. The feeder roots are probably just under the surface and don't allow for much excavation. You'll probably have to haul in the dirt to get positive drainage.
Raised rock/brick beds around the two trees I see would look classy and relieve the need to get too close to the trees. Lower the drive and leave the trees. Just a thought.
I will git some better pictures today.
We live on a 6 acre plot and the entire area runs downhill from the road.
Actualy the stuff hauled away was only the stumps and brush.It is only a packed gravel driveway.
here is the only other picture I have.Cell phone picture but it is from a different angle before stumps were removed.
ok here is a couple better pictures took today.
I am hopeing to talk to someone next week about why I cant dig down at the top of the hill and use that to level up the bottom.Say,use the middle of the area for ground level,and go from there,and water proof the part of the block wall that will be covered with soil.
And I have also considering decreaseing the size and useing the upper part of the lot with the longest distance faceing the drive.
I had no idea this would be so difficult.
But 1 good thing.Once i get the pine bark mulch put out around my Abelias and laurels,the shrub privacy wall will look good.I am so sore today from crawling around putting out the bushes and working up the dirt.I am so thankfull for my tractor or I coulda never done this part of the job.
I am not familiar with your building codes in NC
In Oregon we have different earthquake codes where I live it has jumped from a zone 1 to a 3 What that means is footings have to two rows of 1/2" rebar and two rows in a two foot wall. Taller concrete walls usually have to be done by an engineer.
Garage door fronts can be tough because of diagonal give from a quake. windows get tough if they are within 2 feet of a corner.
Any non compacted fill is a problem. If you can get your foundation on undisturbed earth its the best. A few hours with a Cat might get you there even if your shop was lower then part of the surrounding area.
It is strange that the codes I need to follow for the county aint posted in such a way I can just sit here and read them.But so far I understand the inspector comes out to check the dug footing before pouring and it has to be 22 inchs or wider.He pokes around and any soft spots have to have rebar.So far nothing earth quake related has come up. I have a fellow comeing 1 day next week that feels like digging in would be the better route than filling in the lower corner.
Which i did determine with string and string levels is allmost exactly 6 foot lower on the left rear corner.I measured fall at other spots like 36 and 30 to fiqure out if changing sizes or postions would help.
If and when I get this fiqured out and it has finally got started,you all may hear a rebel yell clear to Orygon as I will be a happy camper to get this headscratching out of the way.
You can be Penny smart but dollar foolish. Cat work in Oregon is about 85.00 an hour. With so many out of work probably less. They could level that area in about four hours not including move in unless someone is close. Your tractor, I don't know how large it is or if you have a bucket can do the back fill.
If you change footing height here anyway you have to use a footing that turns down vertical same as the the other footings, bunch of screwing around.
Concrete here is about 85.00 a yard for 3000 pound usually used on footings its just a math problem to see how much more concrete is used one way or the other. One way to save green is to lower the footing area only then you have much less gravel to raise the dirt up to the top of the footing for the floor.
Here anyway the fist inspection is after the footing forms are in. The inspector would drive away if no forms were installed.
1/2x8" L bolts have to be installed 4 foot on center and one foot from a joint on the PT mud sills here.
I dont know if pole barns are allowed there but its much less cost. Some times without an inspection other then stating setbacks and saying you are raising goats-----Ford goats!
Mack, I don't know how it is there, but around here fill can sometimes be had for nothing. At some construction sites, they have to get rid of material and are happy to find someplace to go with it. The downside is that it may take awhile to get what you need. Just a thought. Dave
85 a yard?! 125 is the cheapest I have found on concrete.
The fellow that destumped and hauled off the stuff charged 120 per hour for the loader work and 100 a load for hauling the trash off.
1250 I think it was to do the job.I had all the trees cut to about 2 foot stumps,firewood and logs pulled out before he showed up.took him less than a day to do the job.
And I will be looking at that pole barn option.We did raise goats and that pole barn we used now houses my "retirement account".About 200 small antique engines.
My little tractor is a L2550 Kubota with 400C loader and quicktach for forks and bucket to switch out easy.the only thing I ever bought with wheels on it made overseas.
It is kinda like Jackie Chan on wheels.A tough little bugger.
Mack, you are correct on cutting the high side and filling the low side. It would cost a lot less. That is usually how you do it if you have room. If you had 4 stakes in the ground where the corners of your building were going to be it would be easier to see how much room you have. In very close quarters you about have to haul it in. If you aren't in a hurry, your tractor and loader would do a lot of work with a three point hitch scarifier (ripper) on the back to loosen the dirt then you could bucket it up. It would take a long time but it could be done.
Michael Seager uses a pole barn as a hanger and to store his Ts Its insulated with a vapor barrier on the ceiling and probably under the concrete floor. Its warm and does not sweat in the Oregon wet mountains.
Guess there is a price change across the US last concrete I bought here was 85.00 a few months ago. If they have to hall a great distance it would climb.
Pole barn building is a specialty work with the builders having the right equipment and men to do it. A few calls to some might be a good idea because some have there own excavators. In a week its generally up without the floor. And you could ask to see there work and talk to an owner.
With the different methods of installing the posts its hard to say how much concrete you would need but lots less then a foundation if its done on level ground.
I agree Paul. I don't know about other regions but here we have Morton, Astro, Cleary, and several other companies that I can't remember to choose from. They get in and get out and you know exactly what it will cost you when they're done. I had an Astro building built in 1992 54 X 60 X 12 and it only took them about 4 days.
Well,I got the building permit and zoneing permits today.91 bucks and 51 bucks 142 bucks just for paperwork to get started.I have all but given up on the nieghbors that were supposed to come by and give me prices on work.
2 people comeing this week to quote prices.I am going to work at this from 2 angles.I will get a couple prices turn key for the whole job.then I will get prices for block work,concrete work and so on and see what pans out.I know the fellow that will do the stick building part is 15 bucks a hour.so labor and materials on that part.
Wish me luck,as this is something I have wanted for a long time and I hope it works out that I can get 1 built.
I have adjusted my plans as such.A 30x40 building.I have turned it around as far as lay out on the land and the highest corner is 3.5 feet higher than the low corner.Should be easyer for the grade man and all to work with that.
I attached a 30 X 40 to my 20 X 24 garage. It has 9.5 foot sidewalls and a 12.5 foot ceiling. I wanted a 30 X 56 but the finances wouldn't allow it. The building inspector is a friend and he said I have more than enough room to add on later. I think I am getting too old for another project like this, so it is going to be big enough.
The longer you wait, the higher the cost. We built a 2 story house in 1974 and a 25x40 garage in 1992. The garage cost about 60% what the house cost!
Well the first folkes came out today to give me a price on the footing,foundation and pouring the floor.
Well the floor estimate is 3000 bucks.Not bad,within range of others I have checked on.
Block work,about 1900.
Backfilling for the floor to be level,300 tons of material,at 7500 bucks delievered and tamped!
All was within reason till it got to that back filling.
The way I have it staked off now there is 3.5 feet of difference from 1 front corner to the other rear corner.Everyone that looks at the places says dont dig down because of water problems.
I had another company come out,look it over and they are supposed to give me a quote for a turn key job,itemized priceing.So if for no other reason I can have that for a bench mark to compare other prices.If my lot was level this wouldnt be near as exspensive.
I hope others that are looking at building a shop can read you alls input and gain from it.
Phone as many people as you can about the concrete Mack. I built a garage 3 years ago and the first guy I called quoted me $9000 for the floor and went on and on and on about how nobody else could beat his price. The next guy I called said he'd do the job for $5600!! That one phonecall saved me the price of nice hardboard siding instead of the vinyl crap that seems to be the norm these days. Since I have the same hardboard siding on the house it really came out looking nice.
Phone as many people as are in yer phonebook.
well,finally my neighbor came over today to check things out for this building.All along everyone has said dont dig down and so on.Well we fiqured today that on the back side it would be 6 runs of 12 inch block to get the floor level.
After scratching my backside a while I finally ask,why cant we dig down?
So he looked over things and said,let me make a phone call.
After a while a fellow came along in a pickup and my neighbor explained that we wanted to dig down to save money.
that fellow looked things over and said it was no different than digging a basement and he would fix the site,footing and all for 900 bucks,and come back and back fill when the masonary was done for 300.
I am astounded as the estimates I have now are 7500 and 6500 for backfilling,material and labor only!masonary another pile of money.
And he can dig down,the nieghbor can lay 4 foot of block with my floor being at the base of that,and save me 1000's of dollars.my 12 foot ceiling will be easy to get like this.WoW is all I can say.Finally the sound of logic.
I will have to water proof what walls will be under dirt,and I will put gutters on to control that water so it wont go in the ground and be happy!
Gee wiz aint it amazeing the different options you can get if people would be honest.
I have got others supposed to be giveing me prices,but I have purty much in my mind decided the first week of november these folkes can get started.
The fellow that will do the stick building part will be 15 to 20 a hour and the materials.so that wont be to bad.I priced trusses a month ago and they were less than a 1000.Cant remember the exact amount.
My doors will be on the back side.In 1 picture you see above a blue truck is parked about where you would go into the doors headed up the hill.
Around the outside wall of the part that is below ground level place a drain pipe and lead the end of it to a lower level. Then put sealer all over the foundation before backfilling. That way any water that gets into the ground will drain off instead of entering your garage. Put the final ground level at a slope away from the building.
Thanks Norm.You are right on track.I had to study useing google as I forgot how to deal with the ends of the pipe.I helped a good friend of mine when he was building his house to water proof his basement.Knock on wood it has been about 10 years and it aint never leaked a drop.
I have allready ask a couple buddys and they aggreed to help with the water proofing.Mostly need some shovel muscle!
Oh yea, the fellow that was going to give me a turn key price,
Now mind ye I am on a budget and I know what the materials cost purty much.lumber,roofing and so on.He tacked on the electrical and some other stuff and didnt get the door sizes right.I told him to price it with 1 big door and 2 small rollup doors.he priced it with 1 big and 1 small.
Here is a copy and paste of that quote.
30 X 40 1200 SQUARE FEET, IT INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING,
FOUNDATION FOOTER AND BLOCK WORK FILL DIRT FOR PAD $7500(OPTIONAL) NOT IN TOTAL.
FRAMING MATERIAL AND LABOR
TRUSSES WITH STORAGE
METAL ROOF AND LABOR
INSULATED BOARD IN CEILING
METAL SIDING (VINYL SIDING $100 CHEAPER)
TWO GARAGE DOORS 16 X 10 AND 10 X 8
TWO GARAGE DOOR OPENERS
ONE 36"WALK THRU DOOR
ELECTRICAL PACKAGE, SHOP LIGHTS,FLOOD LIGHTS...$3900
CAR WASH DRAIN IN FLOOR
TOTAL $40,770 WITH OUT FOUNDATION
Now,mind ye the house I live,my dad payed 36,000 for it in 1972.
this quote went on to say they were looking forward to helping me with my shop needs.
You could go to Menards and custom build a pole barn for less than $6000. Then a floor and electric are all you'd need. That might even include some insulating of roof.
Well,I got some prices.About 6500 for materials as far as the stick built part goes.That is insolated walls with osb board,and the metal roof and all.
labor 20 bucks a hour per head.he will have to get some help as I cant get on ladders over about the second rung.
I priced the Dryloc,85$ for a 5 gallon bucket.I am fiquring on painting inside and out,the entire 4 foot masonary wall 1 coat,then second coat what is at or below grade.I am fiqureing on useing tar also and a thin foam pad around the outside so the back fill material wont cut into the waterproofing.along with the drain pipe.
I got some quotes on garage doors.2000 from 1 fellow,and 1700 from another company for 10x10 doors.1 company offered 2 doors that are 9x9.5 that were ordered and turned down for 1300.If the rateings on them will pass the inspector,I will probably go with them.
I bought my windows and walk in door today.
I checked a bunch of salvage building stores and all they had was JUNK.So for 465 I got all new stuff at Lowes.
I hope to see some dirt flying the last monday of the month or thereabouts.
Mack, That's a good Idea to put the Styrofoam up against the wall after you back-plaster it with your sealant. I don't know how cold it gets where you live but up here in the spring when the frost goes out, and the ground begins to warm up, the temperature change causes the walls to sweat on a masonry wall, and you have a lot of condensation to deal with until the temp. of the concrete and soil temp. equalizes. Here they usually put 2" builders foam against the wall before they back fill it. Sounds like everything's coming together for you. Good luck, I'm sure you'll enjoy your new shop. John
Well just talked to the block layer this morning.I am fixen to go to the tractor show at Arden NC for the rest of the week but they are supposed to bring equipment out here and get started the 27th of october.Finally!
The price for the 4 foot block wall layed and all is about 2900.The digging and footing digging and such is 1200.
That includes some stumps and backfilling when the work is done.
I am so happy to know I can finally look forward to get started on this project.
Well a footing is waiting inspection and they are fiqureing on pouring concrete in it after inspection tommorow.
1890 bucks worth of 12 inch block-8 inch block and the supplys.1100 bucks for all the loader and backhoe work that was done.that included hauling 2 tandem loads of stumps and trash off.
Glad it is finally happening!
Question,How do you determine if a wood stove will be big enough to heat 1200 sq ft?
Here is a example of what I am finding reasonably priced and would like to think this would do the job.
FWIW, I heat my 30x40 pole barn with a double barrel stove and wood. I have an oscelating fan behind it and even in 20 degree weather,it will get it up to 65-70 if I pour the wood to it. You live in a milder climate so that one should do it,if it has a fan for cirulation.
Thanks Jack.I will send a email and see what can be done as to go look at it and such.Wrong time of the year to get a real bargin on a wood stove but anyhow. I do appreciate you folkes helping me out.it is down to bussiness on makeing purty much a life long dream finally come true.
My health aint improveing and if I am going to have a shop and get any good out of it I needed to get on the ball.
I knew since alot of you all have shops you all would be a good pond of information to fish in for answers.Thanks for putting up with me.
Mack -- My shop is 1,200 ft and I heat it with a small box-type wood stove. With your concrete block walls, it should be easier to heat than my metal building. I usually can get it into the 50's or 60's. If it's really cold outside, I still wear warm clothes while I'm in there.
Mack, figure about 5 BTUH per cu ft for South Carolina.
Mack, I built a heater last fall from a hotwater heater tank, it has done a super job so far. My shop is 1500 sq feet, just googled in wood heater plans and got them for free! Have fun, KB
Well the beginings!
10 yards of concrete yesterday morning poured in the footing.24 inchs wide 12 inchs deep.Should be sturdy enough.
The flue for the stove will be about where that chunk of concrete is on the cameras side of the picture.
Btw the first question that got this thread started.
I found these anchor pots on a website and they are made in the same town the Tarheel T's is based out of,Greensboro.
Hope that link works
I should be able to weld on a base for the cost difference of these and the prepour 1's that you can find by doing a few clics.
Well Here is the progress.
Foundation waits for inspection as they finished it not long after I took these pictures.
Useing previously posted pictures for reference will help ye understand how we did it as far as how to handle the lay of the land.
Well the pots came today and I may have to send them back and get the other 1's.Seems that even though it SAYS the prepour pots are the same as the cheaper 1's only with a base on them,danged if I can fiqure out how to weld a base on them.Looks different to me.
Mack, make sure you place black drainage pipe along the outside of the block wall where you will backfill. It should be laid on the footer and covered with pea gravel, then cover that with nursery cloth to keep the dirt out. Both ends of the drainage pipe should be run out to a lower grade than your footer. This will allow the ground water to drain and not seep into your garage.
Mack,,,,,Your drivin' me crazy......That project is coming along Great !!!! I have 1/2 of a double car garage to work on my stuff at home......Keep-up the good work.....It's good ta' see ya'using all that block.....I have worked at a block plant 30-some years and think it's the only way ta go...Another block producer in town had a sign on the back of their truck "Not A Termite In A truckload".......It's going to be a nice place to work.......Carl (25 TT dump-truck too)
I put in tiedowns in my airplane hanger. The tiedowns were 4 inch PVC set a bit below the concrete finish level and duct taped over. About 4 inches down a 1/2 inch rebar was drilled through and the rebar extended out into the floor concrete horizontally. Place a chain on the rebar first if desired. I would if I did it again. When done you can find the PVC by tapping the concrete and the duct tape is removed. It will straighten a car frame.
About 4 inches down the PVC was drilled and 1/2 inch----
Well i talked to the folkes today and I will be driveing up to the tool dealer tuesday or so and swapping out to the other type anchor pot.this type cant be welded on.Allthough the ad clearly says it is the same pot and chain as the 1 I bought? Uh?Anyhow.
The block work is done and passed inspection today so building can continue.I have help lined up tomorow to put the Dryloc on the outside walls and I can do the other stuff as time goes by.There is a chance of rain tuesday and I would rather have all that crawling in tite dirty places done before then!
The brick mason will come back and finish the flue in a week or 2 once some walls start going up.there will be no wood near the flue pipe as he said he wants to put a profile on the side of the wall and such.In other words,we are going overkill on the flue for safty.Which I like that idea because I can load up the heater and leave it for the night to keep the chill down.I have got hooked up with a Ashley wood heater just like my grandparents had in their house and that thing heated the whole house and then some.So Unless something neat with cooking eyes comes along that will be the main heat source.
A Monitor 30 will be later installed on the other side of the building for extra heat and backup.I need to take it to get it checked out as it had a minor problem and was given to me as well.Works but not right.
Well all but backfilling is done on the walls and the floor is ready to pour with anchors and drain in place.the folkes worked in the drizzle tuesday morning to get things ready before the monsoon hit.so now,just waiting for the concrete to be able to be poured.
Well 20 yards of concrete are now in the shop floor.I coulda saved some by putting in more gravel but I fiqure a thicker floor is better.I used the 4000 psi concrete with fiber and also used up the extra durawall panals left over from the wall construction around the anchor pockets and such.
Shouldnt have any floor problems.
well all the studs are up and the laminated beams are over the garage doors.Gota cut out for windows,and put the top plate on and ready for trusses.They should be here monday.Hope to get them on tuesday or wedsday.Found Galvalume roofing tin for 1.39 a foot.Colored for 1.85 a foot.
About 50 miles each way to git it though.BUT the neighbor wants to reroof a shed and we are fiqureing on picking up both orders at the same time as his can be loaded on the truck and mine on my tandem trailer.He would help some on fuel exspense.so that would help with the saveings as well.
Progress is being made.I woulda never thought I would be able to build me a shop.Just thought it would never happen.But it is.Over joyed is a major understatement.
How about some pics??
I will be takeing some today. Later tonight I will make a attempte to post some.Gota go get the boards took down at the garage doors and such this morning before yet another rain storm comes this evening.
Ok a attempt will be made here to post a picture.
It's going to be real nice Mack.
I aint quite done with the back filling,but there will be some of that blue foam cut off and the block will be painted brown before finished.The white is the waterproofing.
The window holes will be cut out of the studded walls and built in as soon as the rain stops.the fellow that drives the truck bringing the trusses is a friends dad and he was told by the lumber truck driver he would not be able to get his 48 foot trailer in our driveway.He just says watch me.
So I reckon about 1 pm I will be watching him try.I hope he can get it in there.I dont want my trusses dumped on the side of the road!
I also have a load of pit gravel comeing to start filling in front of the doors.kinda of a cheap gravel that packs good.325 for a tandem load brought in.I fiqured it up and it would take 5 40 mile trips and 16 bucks a ton to get the same amount with my f350 so I didnt fiqure the 325 was to bad.
Great pics, and great shop!
Just a update,trusses up on the building and nailed in,most of the walls sheeted with lumber to attach the metal to,and should be ready for the metal that will be here next week.
Mack, the guy delivering my trusses said the same thing. He got his rig stuck in my backyard. Towing company wanted $1000 to pull him 100 feet to the street. We got my truck and a buddy's truck and lashed them all together. We pulled the semi and trailer all the way to the street.
Well this fellow tryed but could not get the truck in the driveway so he had to set the trusses off with a crane.The fellows had to tote them about 50 feet to the building and it took 4 good men and me to get them up.
I was really more concerned about the concrete trucks but they didnt have any trouble at all.
Well the fellow delivering the sideing and roofing metal last night tore my cedar rail fence up bad with his trailer.Trouble is he coulda stopped and pulled the post up,but he made the Smart elic remark,"well I will just buy the fence" and proceeded to tear up about 40 feet of fenceing with his trailer on the way out.Then got out and said,what it'l cost me? 250! Probably a good days work to repair the fence and such.He werent happy but he payed up and left.
The building is allmost ready for the metal.Brick mason should be working on the flu/chimmny monday.
Beautiful looking shop with lots of room. I am jealous. Much sturdier than any shop I have seen before. Looks like you have enough roof strength to handle 6 feet of snow. Built as strong as a house.
Thanks,There is 6 runs of 1x8 sawmill lumber on the roof and the rest is 1x6.
The sheeting on the side is 1x6.
I went down to the coast after hurricane Floyd and saw what wind did to roofs.And I remember that 13 to 15 inchs of snow we had back 8 years ago or so and what it did to buildings around here that had that 24 on center and chip board roof.Nope,Aint spending my money on that.
Mack, I wish you were closer so I could borrow your shop.<grin> You have put a lot thought into it and it will serve you well for years to come. Dave
Mack -- I hope you have planned for a toilet and spaces for a cot, a coffee pot, small fridge and a microwave. That way you'd never have to leave the shop! .
Eh,toilet?,OH CRAP.I forgot about that!!!!
I shoulda done something for future instal of 1,the fellow that dug my footings does septic tank work,both legit and "weekend" in the back woods jobs and he told me just put the base of the toilet in the concrete covered up about 1/8 below floor level and bust it out when the inspector leaves and go from there with a small tank in the woods.
Running the water line would be the biggest issue.
But since I didnt do all that,there is going to have to be a doghouse for the aircompressor.Hum,bathroom to?
Cot,bought,small fridge,been shopping for that,mircowave,aint found a good used 1 yet.
Nothing wrong with a privvy, Mack. And you won't need to worry about water lines freezing up.
I grew up using a Privvy, but I wasn't worried about the water lines freezing. Just the seat! Dave
Our shop has I-Beams imbedded in the floor and one edge flush with the top. When we want to straighten somethig we weld an anchor to it and chain it down and lift with the overhead crane. When done we cut the anchors off and grind the area smooth
Starting to look more like a shop!
Congratulations, I can't think of a more appropriate Christmas present(even if self-presented)for a "T Man".
up in snowy Richmond, Va.
Mack, there is a toilet made for installation after the fact. The pipe comes out the back of the toilet and through the wall instead of through the floor.
That is simply wonderful and to think you got it done in under a year.
Yes Sir,it is a long time dream come true for me.Doug,thanks for the tip.That info may come in handy later on!
Weather has took a short toll on progress ,not much got done the past few days other than cleaning up around the site,the flue aint done yet due to fear of the motar freezeing.I have got the garage doors bought and stacked in the building.Due to the fact my back is messed up from the wreck I decided to spend the extra funds to put electric door openers up.The doors are 10x10.I may could lift them now if I am carefull,but 10 years from now I may cant.Looking out for the future.
I did get the free wood heater yesterday from a friend.You know how you are told something is Oh so nice,well yea,after I spent all day cleaning and painting it does look presentable.
It is a HeatWave Wood heater with thermostat and blower.Looks like a sheet metal box.
But it takes 23 inch long wood easy.
I have wore out the road,the internet and otherwise trying to find the right deal on a air compressor.You really have to study and read because just because it is big,dont mean it will do the job.
I found a Quincy for 1199 new that may be what I get.A little more than I wanted to spend but everything any cheaper is just that,cheap.
I found what I thought would be the deal at Lowes,749 for a 3 cylinder Kobalt,made by Sanborn.Well the air outlets,regulater,gauges are all connected by a a pot metal tube.if that thing cracks,it is done for.
I did get a bead blasting cabinet.A Cyclone PK36.
I got it for a 100 bucks,spent about 75 on replacement parts and it is ready for use.I got very good customer service from that company to btw.
Well I thought I would try the new Button but it aint here.
My wood heater is hideing behind the air compressor.I put a new gasket on the door and it has been hooked up to the flu now with new pipe.I just aint got a picture of the profile yet since it was finished.
I found the upload button now.I guess I didnt give it time to download.