Michael Pawelek made a comment about "some type of air filter"! This prompts me to ask the question, has anybody figured out a practical way to add some type of air filter and STILL use the stove pipe, or warm air pipe, or whatever you call that stamped metal pipe that clamps next to the exhaust manifold and directs exhaust pipe heated air to the carburetor? I hate to think of dusty air being sucked into either of my T's engines as I firmly believe that one of the reasons modern engines last so much longer than engines used to last is because of no abrasive dust being run thru' modern engines. And I'm a firm believer in using that warm air pipe because without it, the carb. end of my intake manifold on both T's actually "frost up" during certain weather conditions, and it always feels cold, frost or not!

Harold

I wouldn't worry about the air quality going into my T's innards. Todays roadways are free of dirt and dust clouds of yesteryears. Running clean gas, and changing out the crankcase oil on routine will keep your Ford happy.

The little bit of wear from dust is nothing compared to running all out at 40+mph all tour day long. Just back from a week long tour, and some participants had troubles, like loose rods and one had mag or trans lock up, shut the engine right on down, not crank, but maybe a magnet or keeper came loose and stuck it. The driver had no early warning, just loud sounds of banging and shut the motor down.

With all the things that can go wrong, why worry about the air going in and going out. MHO, yours seems to vary


March 1924 Ford Owner and Dealer adv for air cleaner. Haven't seen these at swaps, probably a poor seller in their day.

Harold, What I have done to my '19 Touring, since I do drive a lot of gravel, shell and caliche roads, is to use the modern air filter sold by the vendors in combination with a "economy" heated manifold made during the Model T era. That way I can filter the air and pre-heat it also. I do not want to get into a pissing match with anyone but every modern engine I own from pick-up trucks to tractors, generators down to weed eaters and my mini garden tiller ALL have air filters for some reason. I do not think their use is a conspiracy but actually some type of engineering safe gaurd. I have a lot of respect for Dan and the really first class work he has done on antique vehicles but for me all my Model A's and Model T's have air filters.....Michael Pawelek

Michael,

With that setup, it looks more like it POST-heats the fuel/air mix - much like the vaporizer systems do. Great for prevention of fuel dilution of the oil and plug fouling but not so great for prevention of icing near the carburetor.

With that much intake manifold volume, it should be great for boosting low-speed torque.

Seth

Michael

Nice filter, see it can be done, hot air and clean air at the same time

Hot air for the cylinders I mean, maybe not me or...?

Guess using a filter on the carb would stop the aspiration of dirty things.

You have a nice solution for keeping the dirty stuff going in, but heck....when I remove a head to clean out the carbon, all that dust and dirt collected in my un-filtered stock T traps that carbon into nice easy to clean out flakes

Ok, I've seen the light. All the filters come off tomorrow!......Michael Pawelek

"...has anybody figured out a practical way to add some type of air filter and STILL use the stove pipe, or warm air pipe..."

Just stuff a metal pot scrubber or two, dampened with oil, into the pipe. The problem is that if you are running in dirty conditions, you'll have to remove the pipe and clean the scrubbers often.

Thanks to all for some interesting responses! In your first post Mike, I think you're absolutely right. They don't put air cleaners on every type of internal combustion engine, large or small, for nothing!

I remember my Dad's first new car, a '51 Pontiac, back in the days when Pontiac's slogan was, "built to last 100,000 miles"! Well, today, 100 thousand miles is no big deal. And along with modern metallurgy, precise metering of fuel by fuel injection, better oil and better oil filters, I also think modern paper air filter elements are a big part of the reason we don't do "ring jobs" on cars anymore; and I really believe that BETTER AIR FILTERS are one of the reasons that nowdays, 200,000 miles is no big deal!

Almost 310,000 on my '83 Cheby 6.2 and counting. Still starts and runs well, doesn't use oil, and I'd rather drive it than anything else we have. I just hope the body doesn't fall off too soon.
I just had to say that. :-)

I've heard of racers ruining a set of rings on the Baja 1000, so yes, dust is nasty.

I'll take clean air over hot air anytime. I've never run heated air on my T engines. Carb icing isn't a problem in cars except at steady speeds. If you suspect icing, go a different speed. Ice on the outside of the manifold is cosmetic. Of course, I run a 180 thermostat, so dense, cold intake air only gives more power.

If you depend on thermobarf and its uneven cooling of cylinders, you probably need a heat pipe and X plugs, just for #1 cylinder.

rdr

I agree that clean air is beneficial to long engine life but don't think that everyone needs an air filter.

Those folks that tour on unpaved roads, need one in my opinion.

Those that drive on paved streets in light traffic may be better off without one - but only because the air filter can be a fire hazard if overchoking or needle/seat problems allow it to become saturated with fuel and the engine decides to bark back through the carburetor.

I had bought one for my speedster because I too believe in clean air. After reconsideration, I decided to drive in only clean air instead.

Seth

I'm with Dan, never run a heat pipe except for the Christmas parade when it is 10 - 20 degrees F around here.

I see people having all sorts of trouble with their Model T's on tour, none of it connected to lack of a heat pipe. The guys who run the foam rubber tube type motorcycle air filters tend to foul lots of plugs until they get smart and take the stupid things off. These same guys often have the little bitty $4 spark plugs with adapters that contribute to their problems.

On a tour last summer one guy stopped at two auto parts stores to replenish his supply of cheap spark plugs. He went through 8 of them on a 250 mile tour. Not sure if the spark plug adapters, the foam tube filter, the lawn mower carburetor, or the True Fire ignition was causing his problems, but he was breaking down all day and it was a rotten day for him. All that stuff is not going to fix problems, it creates problems where none exists in a stock Model T. If you want your car to be reliable on tour, use the stuff that Ford used originally.

Champion X plugs will go tens of thousands of miles without fouling, and never need to be replaced, ever, because they can always be disassembled, cleaned, and reused. A set of them is easily obtained for $5 apiece if you watch eBay and buy used ones.

The carburetor was not designed for an air filter which will be like running with the choke partly closed. You will have to lean the fuel mixture, to keep it from running too rich, but also will have problems because the vacuum will tend to pull in too much fuel and not enough air no matter how you set the mixture. Unless the T is your daily driver and you rack up thousands of miles a year, the amount of wear from dust in the air should be very small. The heat pipe is the way to go. Even though the weather is warm, it still pre heats the fuel. All cars from the mid 1930's on have had some type of heat to the fuel. Some apply it to the intake manifold and others to the air before it enters the carburetor.
Norm

Norman, I had the same questions when I first saw the newer air filter sold by the Model T vendors because of the stink caused years ago in the Model A world with those dinky "air maze" filters that restricted air flow a great deal. I bought the filter pictured in my post above and before installing it asked a neighbor to check it out. He does engine design work for Caterpiller and I trust his thoughts on the subject. After measuring, counting pleats and some pencil work he determined that this filter was more than adequate for the volume of air used by the Model T engine with a good safety factor for a filter that was not perfectly clean and would not cause enough air restriction to make any difference. Since I installed the filter I've run the T in both hot and cold weather, have adjusted the carburetor twice and always end up at the same settings on the Stromberg OF I have installed. So far I cannot tell any difference in starting, idleing and driving performance of this engine with the filter on or off. Maybe more time will tell but as it stands now I'm happy with this type of air filter on this particular T and for me it works just fine. I paid a hefty sum to have this engine rebuilt and for me an occassional 5 buck filter change is good insurance......Michael Pawelek

Michael, Where did you find your airfilter set up, I'd like to use the same thing on my T

Snyder's part # T-6207. I bought spare paper filter elements locally at a auto parts store for 5.29......Michael Pawelek

I'm at a loss, why heat the air? Many new cars use an inter cooler to get more air into the engine giving more power. Why doesn't it work the same for the Model T?

All new cars are fuel-injected, so the fuel is sprayed near the hot intake valves in a fine mist that vaporizes almost immediately.

The T is another animal. It has a carburetor and a wet (with fuel) manifold. Vaporization of the fuel requires heat. If no heat is added to the intake air icing (due to the moisture in the air) on the throttle plate and/or liquid fuel being drawn into the engine can cause performance problems.

This is why pilots that fly small carbureted airplanes must turn on the carburetor heat for landing. The last thing they'd want is stalling the engine while landing.

Seth

Correct me if I'm wrong, but fuel injected cars have no venturi, therefore no pressure drop causing moisture to come out of the air.

Gasoline engines are throttled to control load. At low load the intake manifold is at way less than atmospheric pressure. But there is no fuel to be boiled until very near the intake valve so there is no icing problem at the throttle plate way upstream. Without fuel boiling (vaporizing) at the throttle plate to drop the air temperature, there will be no icing of it.

Seth

G'day blokes

Formula One has no limit to the amount of money spent on development, testing and so on. They often make naturally aspirated engines run with more than 100% volumetric efficiency. Rebuilds are of no concern expense wise however, they have tested and concluded that the engine damage caused by dirt will cost them lap times during the course of a race, so they use air filters. Simple really.

My 5c anyway

Anthony

I'm with Ken (March 2), pot scourers soaked in oil do work a treat. It is quite surprising how much dirt you wash out of them after a drive on a dusty road! May not be as thorough as a paper element filter but sure goes a long way there.

I have also used a paper element along with wrapping the inlet manifold with foam insulation ( the type used to insulate air conditioning pipes). This has reduced the instances of "icing up".
Snow

I read that one of the biggest reasons modern cars can get 200,000 or 300,000 miles on an engine without a rebuild is due to the advancements in cleaning the air that goes into the engine. The article said that without proper filtration very fine dust particles would mix with the thin oil film on the cylinder walls and form a grinding compound that wore out the rings.

Mike, I've had one of those manifold for years and always wondered what was inside and why. Thanks for the photo.