Fantastic 1918 Coupe sold on Ebay yesterday

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Fantastic 1918 Coupe sold on Ebay yesterday
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 09:09 am:

Who ever bought this car caught a very special one at a bargain price! I am jealous. Note that the ad calls it a 1917 but it is in reality a 1918 coupe.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320353812381&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=

18 cpe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Otto Baron on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 09:57 am:

Because of the removable pillars, this has been called the first hardtop bome.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 11:07 am:

Looks like a mid year '17 to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul griesse on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 11:40 am:

I looked at a restored 1918 Coupelet which is in the Crawford Museum in Cleveland, last weekend. A great and rare car, as is this one. There should be landau irons on each side of the top. Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 12:08 pm:

That type of coupelet did not have landau irons. It is the non-folding, padded-top variety.

Erik Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul griesse on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 12:27 pm:

Erik------Same deal as the one I looked at---a non-folding, padded top--but with landau irons. I`m wondering if a coupe and a coupelet were two differant cars available in 1918? Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Otto Baron on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 12:32 pm:

I've seen model A's with decorative landau bars, but never Model T's. Those landau bars on a T with a nonfolding top, my guess, would have been aftermarket, or a misguided attempt at restoration. If there were decorative laundau bars for model T's with nonfolding tops, there should be a parts number for that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 01:21 pm:

I've done a small amount of studying on this particular body style as I am interested in 1917 enclosed-bodied Model Ts.

The landau bars do not appear in the late 1917 model year catalog for this particular model/body style nor on the other cars of which I am personally aware of or have personally examined.

Erik Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 02:53 pm:

Paul Griesse,
Please contact me at modelttowncarclub#yahoo.com
-Don Watson


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 02:58 pm:

Opps!Paul Griesse,
email should be modelttowncarclub@yahoo.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 07:42 pm:

From the MTFCA online encyclopedia:



1917 was an “odd” year for the Ford Motor Company, when it came to its Coupelet bodies. There were apparently three different styles. When the style year began, in August 1916, the Coupelet was a duplicate of the 1916 model except for the change to the new fenders, hood, radiator, etc. of the “iron era.” This body was quickly dropped in favor of a transitional style Coupelet which had a padded top. The date of this change is not known but is believed to have been in late 1916 or early 1917. This body type lasted for just a short time, and was replaced with the familiar Coupe body style at, perhaps, mid-1917, which was probably called a “1918” model. (These 1917 and 1918 Coupes continued the removable side posts, while the 1919 to 1923 Coupes had solid posts, but the general style was the same.)
© Bruce W. McCalley. Rev. July 1, 2000.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred_Houston,_Broken_Arrow,_OK on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 07:52 pm:

According to the Ford parts books that followed, Ford considered the "padded top" version to be a 1917 Model.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 08:17 pm:

It depends on whether you are talking "model year" or "fiscal year" vs "calendar year."

The 1918 model year started in August of 1917.

To respectfully refute Bruce McCalley I know of a non-folding padded top coupelet with a September 1917 motor serial number which says to me that this style did cross over into at least the early part of 1918 model year. This car has a known history. This also makes me believe that the flat-top removable pillar coupe was not available in the 1917 model year but became available sometime in the 1918 model year.

Without offending the buyer or seller, it would be nice to know if the running gear and motor for the car sold on eBay are original to the body or if what was sold was an accumulation of parts.

To Paul Griese: are you sure it wasn't a 1915 coupelet that you saw at the Crawford Museum? They have one listed in their collection - click on this link to view:

http://www.wrhs.org/index.php/crawford/Search_Collections/Auto_Collection/1915_F ord_Model_T

I have a hard time believing that landau irons were used on the non-folding padded top model. That model was not presented that way in the catalog. Also, I personally think it would have not been aesthetically pleasing. If the same landau irons were used as the folding tops, it would cross the window. If they were mounted only on the padded portion of the top, they would need to be much shorter and literally be mounted almost straight up and down as there is very little surface area.

Erik Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 09:08 pm:

According to the ad the Engine Serial# is 216504 and has a casting date of 8-29-17 and was what came with the car.
Does anyone know the previous owner?
-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 10:07 pm:

Another thing the Laundau irons were functional as supports on the folding tops, doubt if Ford would have offered non-functional decoration.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Otto Baron on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 10:57 pm:

My guess is the early coupe and Couplet bodies, except for the top, were very similar. It probably wouldn't be difficult to convert one to the other. But again, unless one deleted the single side window behind the door, the Landau bars would not be possible. More then blocking the window, one would have to also do something about the ways the center of the bars were secured to the roof. In the Model A sport coupe, this was accomplished by the bars being a single piece. What I’d like to see posted are any pictures of a model T which would have the landau window, with the window behind the door.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 11:54 pm:

Engine serial number 216504 that was in the eBay listing is incomplete as it is one digit short for a 1917 calendar year car - it should be seven digits long. (Note that serial numbers 2,16X,XXX fall in August and September of 1917.)

The seller listed his phone number in the eBay listing. You could contact him and maybe get a better history on the car including the name of the previous owner.

Erik Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 12:05 pm:

Dave Simmering and Bryan Ostergren both have this style of car. Very neat and rare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 12:11 pm:

Engine serial numbers after 2113502 are considered as 1918 Model T's and would have been sold as such by the dealer. The 1918 model year began August 1, 1918.

1918 Model T's are rarer than 1917 because production declined significantly, probably due to war production.

Reference:
http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1918.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 12:12 pm:

Oops, meant to say the 1918 Model year began August 1, 1917. Sorry!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 04:56 pm:

I understand the difference between model year and calendar year. That is why I differentiated between model year and calendar year in my third post and distinctly mentioned calendar year in my fourth post.

Erik Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Simmering on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 11:31 am:

Before this E-bay auction, we knew of only 3 or 4 of the early padded-top coupes. Brian Ostergren in CA, one in a museum in Nebraska, mine now in Tennessee, and we have seen pictures of one being built in Canada.

Now another in the E-bay auction sold in New Jersey. I talked with the seller who knows very little of the history. With the exception of the demountable wheels and no cowl lights and brackets, the car is very complete.

I consider my car a 1917 model. It is pictured in the Ford Sales Brochure with a print date of 05/17/17 and also in "Ford, the Universal Car in Business Service" with a print date of 07/01/17.

Dave Simmering
Afton, TN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob_J on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 01:16 am:

Dave,
Are the cowl lamps and brackets unique to this body style? Are they the standard that Ford used on the tourings or centerdoors?
Bob J


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Simmering on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 01:36 pm:

Bob,

The brackets on our Coupelet use 4 screws to attach it to the pillar.

The Ford Price List of Miscellaneous Parts eff 09/01/20 shows a different factory and part number
Coupe Fac # 7260, part # 228
Sedan (centerdoor) Fac # 7258, part # 493

I believe the dash light bracket to be unique to the '15 to '19 Coupe/Coupelet.

Dave Simmering
Afton, TN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob_J on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 09:12 pm:

I checked with the owner and he missed a digit on the serial number it is a September 1917 Number, an early 1918 Model. Does anybody have pictures to post of other existing 1917-18 coupelets? I would love to know what the interior and finished exterior looks like. I had heard that they may have come pre-painted green from Fisher Body and set w/Ford black sheetmetal. Towe had a 1916? that was green and I saw an unrestored green one a few years back. The 1920 Coupe at Fairlane, is also green but since that belonged to Henry, it was probably a custom job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 11:28 pm:

The interior of the non-folding padded top 1917 coupelet is wool/cloth above the belt line and naugahyde seats, door panels and cowl panels. Below are pictures of an unrestored interior of such a car.

Erik Johnson
1
A
B
Note later ignition switch. This car is somewhat unrestored, unfortunately the engine was changed sometime in it's history - it now has a 1926 motor.
C
This car could use some soap and water. Notice dirt on the cushion and especially on the floor.
D
Below: door for slot for to stow window pillars
E
Below: interior of slot to stow window pillars. Note how perfectly lined-up decorative tacks are on upholstery.
F


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob_J on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 12:24 am:

Erik,
Great photos. Thanks for posting. Looks like a snug fit for the posts. I wonder if it is tough to get a grip on them out of that cavity?
Bob J


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron_S on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 01:35 am:

Henry's Coupe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron_S on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 01:45 am:

Oops This is Henry Fords Car at Fairlane. Notice the green against the black car behind. They said he had it updated in 1927 at the factory with modern fenders.
Ron


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron_S on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 01:57 pm:

Here's the Couplet that was at Towe...sorry for the lousy photo. What ever happened to that car?
Ron


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 12:09 am:

This is the coupelet from the Towe collection. I bought it from the estate of Paul Sorrell in Texas about 2 years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 02:08 am:

Yeh, and you took all the neat speedup equipment off it!

Hope you don't see me at Bakersfield; how much do I owe you from San Diego? Was it $10, or $5?

rdr :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 11:36 am:

When did the This also makes me believe that the flat-top removable pillar Coupe was probably in SEP 10 1917.

This can be read in Bruce pooled data;
SEP 10 (Acc 78)
Coupelet bodies to have gas tank in rear deck.
This day or just before, came the new flat-top removable pillar Coupé.

This is linked to 1917 the non-folding padded top model had the gas tank under the seat, therefore, this model was so high, they sat on top of gas tank like.
My 1918 flat-top removable pillar Coupe has engine number 2,211,929 (22 SEP, 1917), and have the gas tank in the rear deck, and therefore needed to have this model not be so high in their body shape. And cheaper to manufacture this straight roof.

Ake Osterdahl Sweden

Gas tank location 1917 or 18 coupe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim in Indiana on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 02:25 pm:

Erik,any idea of the history of the '17 Coupelet you posted the very interesting picures of?


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