Clutch Revisited

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Clutch Revisited
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 07:58 pm:

A while back I started a thread on clutches. I'd put a Watts clutch in my speedster for a free nuetral but found that it wouldn't hold my fresh Fronty motor.

The Watts was a kit including a fresh spring, properly machined push ring, and the special Watts disks. I assembled it following the instructions but it wouldn't hold the torque regardless of what I did for adjustments.

I put the stock T clutch back in with the special spring I got with the Watts kit. I measured the spring and it has 96 lbs of pressure when compressed to 2".

Anyway, with the stock clutch and stronger spring, I was able to adjust it so that it holds. Engagement is smooth and normal and although it has some of the drag I can't seem to eliminate in a stock clutch. The drag is not so bad as to create a real problem but the car does want to creep a bit, even when warmed up. I'll continue to try to tweak the linkage adjustment on the clutch pedal and hand brake cam to see if I can tame it further but it is not a show stopper, just a little irritating.

I am not slamming the Watts clutch, I believe it is a fine product for those with a stock to mildly stronger motor and I plan to reuse the one I have in another car. I've heard from several folks with stock motors or Z heads with a Stipe cam who were happy with their Watts clutches. Possibly a somewhat stronger spring would have helped me. Something more like 110 to 115 lbs rather than the 96 lbs I got with my package.

In any case, I can drive the car again and got some miles on it yesterday so life is good.

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 08:31 pm:

Some of the new clutch springs were made incorrectly awhile back. There was a thread on this awhile back. The spring manufacturer acknowledged the problem and has since corrected it. Sounds as though you may have gotten one of the earlier bad ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R,V, Anderson on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 08:34 pm:

Having trouble with my computer; I lost the last part of my last post. The Watts requires a spring with 110 lbs. The 96 lbs. isn't enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 09:41 pm:

R. V.

Thanks for the info, as I've used the spring I got in the kit, I'll order another spring and double check it before I put the clutch in my 26 coupe. Stiffer spring and a stock motor and I'm confident it will work just fine.

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Houston, Broken Arrow, OK on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 03:00 pm:

Hey guys. Maybe We're starting to see problems develop when using the SM rated automobile oils?

From the American Petroleum Institute:

Higher performance engine oils such as API SJ thru SM will contain some level of friction modifier. While the friction modifier improves fuel economy, it is not compatible with wet clutches used on motorcycles. The friction modifier causes the wet clutch to slip. This is especially true if the motorcycle manufacturer recommends using only engine oils carrying API SF or SG Service Categories.
API recommends following the Original Equipment Manufacturer's (OEMs) oil recommendations. Typically an API SJ through SM engine oil would include some friction modifier. Only if the [motorcycle's] OEM indicates that higher performance engine oils such as API SJ, API SL and API SM it is possible to use these engine oils in these motorcycles.

Regards,
Dennis L. Bachelder
American Petroleum Institute
1220 L Street NW
Washington DC 20005 USA

No question the Model T Ford Clutch is wet.

One of the advantages of original Model T Ford clutch is it was very forgiving. Chevys were notorious for breaking rear axles in the early days. This was a distinct advantage for the early Model T based race cars.

I suspect the SM oil problem will only worsen as time goes on.

The motorcycle oils have a couple more advantages for the Model T Ford. 1600 ppm of ZDDP, not only good for the engine, but the overstressed triple gears as well. Motorcycle oils are made for high heat engines and the synthetic oils will not shear out of the stated range under high heat conditions.

Mobile 1 Motorcycle oils for wet clutches (available in 10w40 and 20w50) may be purchased at Auto Zone stores for about 9 bucks per quart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 08:04 am:

Walt, your problem was definitely with the spring. A couple years back I noticed the problem and brought it to both RV Andersons and Glen Chaffins attention. With the correct tension spring you can run the Watts clutch with a high performance engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 09:10 am:

Hey Guys I know that Iam beating a drum but the th400 clutch from Langs is by far better than the other clutches. A stock late model car uses 150 lbs of pressure on 3 plates to shift a 4,ooo lbs car with 200 plus horsepower. The plates that Langs uses are made by Raybestes and are very forgiving. There clutch also has 7 plates. I have slipped my with heavy loads for 10 years now and still have a good solid clutch with the stock spring. If you want to stop the creep and have a very strong clutch quit beating yourself up and get the best one out there. Thanks for hearing me out, Scott


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