Rear Axle Assembly

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Rear Axle Assembly
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By FISCH on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 08:26 pm:

Hey, new guy here.

I have inherited a T and been learning. This past month I discovered both outer keyways on each side cracked. Even I knew this called for a rear end disassembly and rebuild.

Well so far so good but....

I am short on time, and research material... need to know exactly how the inner and outer shaft seals go on. My take off did not have inner seals at all, and my outer hub seal caps had to be cut off (someone JB welded nice and pretty new caps on the old one then pounded the whole thing on).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lee Crenshaw on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 07:18 am:

Fisch, the outer bearing runs in grease and therefore requires a seal at each end. I would
recommend that upon removing the outer bearing you install a "late style" '26-'27 inner seal(2511)
and use an "after market" style neoprene outer
seal that includes a cap that replaces the Ford steel stamping. .
Henry built it using a 2511B felt washer, a 2510A steel washer,the roller bearing,
another 2510A steel washer and a 2511B felt retained by the 2510 steel cap.
The after market neoprene seals are much more effectiive than the original design.
If, when replacing the axles you did not replace the babbit thrust washers, back up and
do so. If the babbit disintergrates, you will
loose the driveshaft connection to the transmission resulting in no brakes.
Lee


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By FISCH on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 08:18 am:

Ok, I was trying to keep it original. Now I thought the inner seal was placed on the inside (axle) of the inner bearing before the sleave... You are saying the inner seal goe on the inside of the outer bearing?.... Just a bit confused... It would be nice if somewhere there were detailed diagrams of this ... I feel like I have to reinvent the wheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harvey Decker on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 08:38 am:

Hi Fisch:
Where are you located?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lee Crenshaw on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 09:15 am:

Fisch, you're right on! Please pardon the omission.
Lee


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lee Crenshaw on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 09:23 am:

Fisch, you're right on! Please pardon the omission.
Lee


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 10:22 am:

The inner seal goes on the inside of the outer roller bearing and is sandwiched between the edge of the sleeve and the step in the housing. When installing the seal, do a few things.
1. grease the axel shaft
2. put something like tape over the keyway to avoid cutting the neoprene or leather seal.
3. use sealant where the circumference of the seal seats between the stop in the axel housing and the edge of the sleeve.
4. remove about 1/8" in length from from the end edge of the sleeve.
Some replace the outer cup, felt and washer with an aftermarket outer cup with neoprene seals. Problem with those is they do not seal on the rough OD of the axel tube and IMHO are worthless.
If you are careful with installation of the inner seals, you won't have grease leaks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 11:17 am:

Hi Fisch. If you take a look at one of Mac's printed catalogs there should be an expanded view of the rear end with part number and descriptions. It's a free catalog within the USA. I don't think they have the same photos on their website:

http://www.macsautoparts.com/

Regards,
Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By FISCH on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 06:44 pm:

Harvey I am around Dayton, OH

Garnet, I am aware of Mac's but have not gotten a catalog recently.... found that Lang's is a bit more friendly and knowledgable (at least over the phone)... I also have Gaslight within driving, but I have not always been please with thier product/ service (don't have the parts when I need em). I do have a replacement leather seal, so if I here you all correctly the inner seal goes on the insid of the outer bearing sleave.

Also, question on the differential reassembly ... I have a little disk fiber gasket that I think goes into one of the 'holes' on the spider... what side? Again, my take off didn't have one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David_Cockey on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 08:14 pm:

Snyders in Ohio is my most frequent source of Model T parts. They've always been very pleasant to deal with, will tell you when you call if something is out of stock though it doesn't happen very frequently, and always ready to answer questions. I've called as late as 2 pm on a weekday and had the parts on my front porch in southeast Michigan the next afternoon. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/

Get a copy of the MTFCA publication on rebuilding axles: http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/4398 Well worth the $12.

I've had good luck with the modern outer neoprene seals in an aluminum cup which Richard doesn't like. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/184


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 08:52 pm:

Fisch -- The fiber disc goes between the inner ends of the axles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By FISCH on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 09:57 pm:

Ok, Mike don't mean to be obtuse but??????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By FISCH on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 09:59 pm:

About my last, Mike, got one disk and two 'ends' to the axels so which side?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 10:01 pm:

The inner ends of the axles almost touch each other at the middle of the rear end, when it's all together. That disc goes between them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By FISCH on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 07:18 am:

Mike, interesting as my spider has a brass fill in, so the axles will never physically touch. So does this 'brass plug' on the spider take the place of the fiber disk?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 08:07 am:

Never heard of a brass plug in there unless someone replaced the fiber disc with a brass disc. Are you sure you are looking in the hole in the diff spider where the axel ends meet? Only brass parts that were ever in a diff carrier were bushings in the spider holes and axel gear holes, and those only in the very early Ts 1913 and earlier I believe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 11:22 am:

Fisch -- I tend to agree with Richard; someone must have replaced the fiber disc with a brass one at some time. He probably thought it would be a better material for that use, but the fiber actually works just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By FISCH on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 12:11 pm:

Well, the only way for sure is if I take it apart and post a photo... will do eventually, time is a premium now a days. But from what I observed is the spider gear did not have a 'hole' in the center where the two axels would meet. Instead there is a brass insert in the center to covers both the center 'hole' and extends onto the sides... looks factory or something... remember I a learning as I go.


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