After Market T - Pickups at Work

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: After Market T - Pickups at Work
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 01:05 am:

Sorry, place and date not known:
Cheers
Adrian




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 01:18 am:

Is that Gates truck, a Touring conversion?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 09:26 am:

Adrian,

Thanks for posting. Note I believe the top picture appears to be a 1925 factory Ford pickup. (Yes, it could also easily be a 1925 or 1924 model year roadster with the turtle deck removed and a 1925 factory pickup box installed by the owner. )



Above is a picture of Steve Coniff’s unrestored 1925 roadster pickup from page 29 of the Sep-Oct 1987 Vintage Ford (also page 357 of Bruce McCalley’s book “Model T Ford”) used by permission. You will note the similarities. On Steve’s pickup the original owner added a wooden box under the regular pickup box to hold the spare tire. That is why his pickup box looks deeper on his photo as it goes past the rear fender.

If you have the capability to send me a higher resolution photo of that first picture or point me to a source that I might be able to obtain one. I would like to study the spare tire rim and other rims more. Zooming in on the spare it appears to be a rim with the removable lugs. If it was a factory USA 1925 pickup – and if those demountables came with it from the factory – “in theory” they are all the ones that are interchangeable and would have had the lugs permanently attached. See the additional lug/loose lug discussion at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/92314.html?1242971377 Especially the http://mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wheels March 7, 1924 letter to Ford Branches that starts off, ““The necessary changes have been made in the Kelsey wheel and rims also the Firestone and Cleveland rims so that with the exception of a few Kelsey wheels which are still to be shipped, we will have but one wheel and one rim for production, even though they are being shipped from three different sources.” But it could also just be my eyesight and the picture above may have the permanent lugs on the rim. You can click on my name and the third line down is my regular e-mail address.

Thunder – no, I don’t think the second photo (the Gates truck) is a touring conversion. If you look you do not see the straight edge that the door would mate to on the rear of the front seat. Rather you see the curved roadster/runabout front seat sheetmetal. Not also that the top rest is on the front seat – and a touring would not have that. A touring could be modified by replacing some of the wood and sheet metal – but back then it would have been a lot less expensive to just trade the touring body for a roadster body at the local junk yard. If that doesn’t make sense to you – send me an e-mail and I’ll did up some photos comparing the cut off to the roadster. The Gates truck (second photo) appears to be a mid 1917 to 1920s roadster/runabout. It has the earlier 1915-1920 style top saddle bracket and the later mid 1917 to 1922 windshield hinge. I tried to zoom in and see if the wishbone was above the axle roughly 1918 and earlier or below the axle roughly 1919 and later. I could see what appears to be an accessory shock/spring arrangement – but I couldn’t make out if the wishbone was above or below.

Great photos thank you for sharing them. Ok – shameless plug for more wheel felloe and wheel rim photos – if you or anyone else has some – please e-mail or post. Thanks.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 10:37 am:

I also saw, Hap, the shadow, below where the bottom of the body curves up, in the rear. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

From thier website...

When Charles Gates, Sr. bought The Colorado Tire and Leather Company in 1911 for $3,500, little did he know his small shop in Denver would evolve into a leading rubber products company. Colorado Tire and Leather made a single product, the Durable Tread, a steel-studded band of leather that motorists fastened to their flimsy car tires to extend their mileage.

So, I wonder if that second pic, was shot in Denver? BTW. Notice the "Half-Sole" on the signs.

Found on another site.....

Colorado Tire and Leather Company soon outgrew its rented space. The Gateses invested $15,000 in the construction of a small two-story building to accommodate the company. The second floor was used for halter production, and the first floor housed the company's offices and production facilities for the Half-Sole, a retread made of rubber fabric that could be cemented to a worn tire. The Half Sole became one of the company's biggest successes.

Thanks for posting those pics Adrian.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris S. Hill on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 12:37 pm:

What's the purpose of the thing wrapped around the hood on the gates truck?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 12:44 pm:

My guess is, that its a winter front. It helps the engine warm up faster, and keeps it warm, in the winter time. Notice the flap, thats partially open, to cover the radiator. Even though there is no snow in the pic, its likely, that it was winter time, when that was shot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lance Sorenson on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 12:53 pm:

Does anyone have one of those to use as a pattern? What were they made of? The basic design would be easy but the details of how they were attached would be interesting. I would like one for my 25 coupe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 04:23 pm:

Lance:

I see that you own Ragnar Hagen's 14 Ford (that originally was sold by Strong Motors in Atwater, MN).

Typical winter fronts are actually two pieces. One piece is the "blanket" that goes over the hood. The second piece is the front piece that goes over the radiator shell. They are made of naugahyde (typically cobra grain) and have padding similar to old fashioned, felt carpet pad. Sometimes the radiator cover has a roll-up flap (similar to what you see on modern diesel trucks).

My dad had a half a dozen NOS hood blankets that we carried around to swap meets but were never able to sell. Nobody ever wanted them. At one swap meet approx. 10 years ago we just ended up giving them all away.

I believe my dad kept one blanket and radiator cover for his own collection.

Erik Johnson
Minneapolis, MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Chennell on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 11:42 pm:

The bottom picture appears to me to have been taken in Denver. The ornate building in the background appears to me to be the Brown Palace Hotel, then as now a Denver icon. Gates maintained a factory in Denver for years and years on south Broadway, and the photo appears to be taken from a vantage point on Broadway at approximately 18th street. The other possibility is that the photo was taken from Tremont and 17th, but I can't say for sure. At either point, the Denver street grid changes, creating a unique triangular space that both the Brown Palace and apparently the Gates took advantage of.

Gates was a prodigious figure in Denver's economy for a long time. Denver's Model T branch assembly plant was purchased by Gates to make rubber products after Ford decided to close it. It's now in the process of demolition/redevelopment into condominiums. Or that was what I last saw when I was there.

Luke Chennell
McPherson, KS


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 11:45 pm:

Hap, I am not a good librarian I am afraid, and I did not note down where I found the two pictures above. I am sorry about that,
Cheers
Adrian.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 12:18 am:

Luke. After looking at a pic, of the Brown Palace, you could very well be right. The pic shows seven stories, up to the arches. As does the photo of the Gates Truck. I think you got it....

I think I know what I'm doing tomorrow.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 12:11 pm:

Adrian,

Not a problem -- thanks for letting me know you don't remember/have the reference. I also have several "unknown" origin photos also. But if you run across the reference later and remember -- please let me know.

Luke -- thanks for adding the location and history. That is one of the great benefits of the forum. Someone often notices something and can add that information to the posting.

Respectfully,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford Touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 01:32 pm:

Thanks for the post. The top picture is yet another '25 roadster p/u I've not seen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Chennell on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 09:45 pm:

Found this link on the photo. My suspicions were correct, and that is the Brown Palace in the background.

http://photoswest.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?fullRecord+16600+594+623619913+39+1

The photographer was a fairly prominent Denver photographer, Harry M. Rhoads. BTW, www.photoswest.org has a ton of antique car pictures of all stripes.

Enjoy,

Luke Chennell


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 10:48 pm:

Hey Luke. I couldnt get that to open, but I did find this.

[IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/thunder_/historicdenver_brownpalace.jpg[/IMG]

Its hard to tell, with the limited view of the building in the background. But, like I said, the seven stories up to the arches, match.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Chennell on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 11:10 pm:

My mistake. Try this one:

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00185778+Rh-778

Luke Chennell


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Chennell on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 11:12 pm:

Well, that one doesn't pull up the full information with the record, so I copied it here:

Gates Rubber Company's "Service Truck No. 1" is parked in front of a Gate's service station at 1569 Broadway in Denver, Colorado. A sign above the station front door reads: "Gates Half Sole Tires, The International Rubber Co." Sign on window next door reads: "Cyrus Boutwell."
Date 1923.

Luke Chennell


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 11:54 pm:

Great work Luke. I didnt get to Denver today, but a trip up there is in my near future, as I have some other studies to attend to. It will be interesting, to get a shot, from that same angle, and see if that old building is still there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brent on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 10:25 pm:

cyrus boutwell was an art dealer in denver.
i found a photo at goodwill that had his sticker on the back of the frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 08:49 am:

Thunder, I'm gonna speculate that the truck is long gone...if that is why you want to go to that location. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 09:24 am:

Hey Ray. I bet thats why I didn't see it there. Actually, I wanted to see if the rest of the area was the same. If it was, it would be an excelent setting for a "Modern" picture.

I was unable to stop in the area (I was in my truck, and all parking was taken) but it looks like from the angle, that there is now a parking lot in that area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 11:42 am:

sad how things change...beautiful old ornate buildings torn down to build ugly, no-character office space and parking lots.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Travis E. Towle on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 02:31 pm:

I would love to have one of those hoods too Lance - You would someone woud make some of those - seems people would want them if they were priced right...


>
By Lance Sorenson on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 12:53 pm:
Does anyone have one of those to use as a pattern? What were they made of? The basic design would be easy but the details of how they were attached would be interesting. I would like one for my 25 coupe.



Travis
Topeka, Kansas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 08:32 pm:

Hey Ray. The building in the background, the Brown Palace Hotel, is still there. The rest of the area is pretty much new highrises. I agree completly though. The old Art Deco style brick buildings really should be saved.


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