Can rear windows date a Model T ?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2009: Can rear windows date a Model T ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Sheehan on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 06:06 am:

I have an old photo of my grandfather standing with 2 of his brothers on the side of a Model T, guessing by how old they appear to be, I would guess the picture was taken around 1924. Not much of the car can be seen, except it has a vertical windshield, which from I read would mean it is pre-1923?, also the top is up, and the back corner is exposed, not wrapped around, and the last detail I can notice is it has 2 rear windows. Most 2 rear windows I see are on post 1923, I was wondering if there were certain years for these features?Model T year Unknown


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 08:53 am:

Matt,

If you could have your Grandfather move so we can see if it has oil cowl lamps, would help. It's obviously pre-early 23. I'm gonna guess it's a replacement top or rear curtan, believe they only had one backlight (window) on the rear curtan, from the factory.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim in Indiana on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 09:32 am:

Matt,I think this is a '15-'16 that has had a '17-'22 hood and radiator put on it.Here's why.The rear fender does not appear to have a center 'crown'.The front fender appears to be flat on top,also with no crown.And lastly,the non-demountable wheels appear to have rounded felloes,which does not mean much since I think some round felloe wheels were used in to the '20s'.It was very common to put later style radiators and hoods on early cars either genuine Ford or aftermarket parts.I stiil have a Peerless radiator and hood I took off a '16.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Olsen on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 09:45 am:

contact the county records office, see when the dog license was issued.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Olsen on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 09:46 am:

wait, dang it that would only help date the image. sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Humble on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 09:53 am:

Matt,
Jim may win the contest for the best explaination, but to address your points regarding the windshield and rear windows, the vertical windshield would have been similar (but not identical) for 15-22, and top would have 3 rear windows for 17-22, 2 openings for 23-24/25 and one for 25-27. one could extrapolate that if there had been a new model T after 1927 that it would have no window in the rear of the top.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 03:27 pm:

Jim, I think you may be right about an after market hood and radiator shell. The hood looks like it is longer and has more of a downward slope to it than a stock T hood. Just my .02. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 08:50 pm:

Matt,

I think we could bracket the dates on the car a lot easier if you can provide a higher resolution scan. If someone e-mailed you that scan – at only 3.58kb then we may not have that option. Below I have scanned a photo and saved it at approximately 6 KB and 125 KB. I also saved it at 2.9 mb but it didn’t really improve the quality as the photo was small to begin with – about 3 1/2 by 3 1/2 inches.



above about 6 kb



above the same photo at about 125 kb

Notice how much easier it is to see the details in the 125kb rather than the 6kb photo. They are both from the same scan – only one of them is compressed.

The photos below are cropped from the 125 kb photo:





In the 125kb you can actually zoom in and make out that there is something below and to the right of the Ford script on the brass radiator closest to the camera. I could not zoom in and see that detail on the 6kb picture. While you cannot tell if it is Made in USA or Made in Canada or Made in England or something else – if it has not been altered it is one of those logos. And that would indicate it is an May 1912 or later brass radiator [ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#rad for a USA produced radiator. “Made in USA” under “Ford” script was added about April 16, 1912.] Those types of details can be very handy for dating early photos -- although parts can and often were replaced. In the garage photo above you will note that Blackie our cut off has the later front fenders and only one brass headlamp rim remaining.

So if you have the opportunity – please post and or e-mail a higher resolution scan and I will gladly post it for you and/or zoom in on the parts we want to see more of.

Respectfully requested,

Hap Tucker 19l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 09:29 pm:

Matt,

There will be lots more still to look at, but concerning the front fenders – I believe the illustrations below will help. I could not find a nice picture from the same angle but the Vintage Ford had a 1915 and also a 1917 (that was used in later catalogs also) from approximately the same view point. Please see below:


1915 above

Your photo above and 1917 below



I believe the curve of the fenders matches the 1917 and later style much better than the 1915-1916 flat on top and less curved as it goes back to the running board style. If we are lucky – a better resolution scan will show if the rear seat section has the 1915-1920 or the 1920-25 rear tub. As well as if it has oval or rectangular top sockets etc.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 19l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


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