I had an issue with my brakes today. I'm not blaming anyone. I just thought you all might be interested.

Two issues - the brake light switch failed. Lost fluid. Found one in the "what year is the car" box parts store - 79 Ford Fairmont.

The other issue is that repeating bleeding problem. Yes, I have no pedal again because of air that I can't get out!

I've been researching it on the web. A rubber mallet to free any trapped air was a good tip.

This came off Wilwoods website:

Problem: SPONGY PEDAL OR BOTTOMS OUT.
Solution: Calipers not bled with bleed screws straight up. Unbolt calipers and hold with bleed screws in the vertical position.


When they work, they are AWESOME. When they don't they are frustrating.

Tim, get a syringe and push the air back, Remember the old wagner syringes?

get a brake bleeder and that will suck out the fluid and air problem sloved.

Tim: Mighty Vac makes a hand held vac pump kit. It has a brake bleeder kit in it. You hook it on the bleed screw and take off master cly cap and start pumping. Sucks air right out. Make sure to keep master cly full. Best way when you are working alone. You can use it for all kinds of stuff also. Harbor Freight has them. Dan

Tim, it took us about three hours of bleeding before we had them right ,i bought one of those vacuum bleeders and have only had to do it once and they are great, i was on the CO/WY tours and the Kanab tour coming down some long steep grades,no fade,no smoke.One thing i was told as that if there is any sideplay in the axles it can cause a loss of pedal but pumping them once will do the job.
Rick

is the master cylinder below the disc cylinder.
if so you will encounter bleed-back. this can be
cured with the use of a residual valve, 10# for
drums, 2# for disc
http://www.shining-wit.net/tina/buggy/design/brakes/index.html#Residual%20Pressu re%20Valves

The master cylinder is above the calipers on these. I bought a vacuum bleeder and still can't get the air out. Guess I'll try the Wilwood suggestion. Also noticed recently that one of the calipers seems to be dripping fluid but not from a loose bleed valve.

Must admit I'm pretty ignorant about disk brakes. I quit doing brake work on my modern iron when drums went away.

Vacuum bleeders didn't work, that was my first choice. The reason is that the bleeders on these are crappy, 1/4 turn and you're sucking air in past the threads. I'd like to try a pressure pot, but I'm not sure the hose will stay on the m/c set up the way it is.

If it every stops raining here (still, again,as always this year) I will probably raise the front of the car up until those bleeders are level and try it again. The last three times I did this I guess I lucked out. 3 hours was my best time too.

If this tidbit I found on wilwoods site works, next time I'm going to make up my own lines, flexible enough to bring the calipers up higher on the rotor for bleeding, then install.

This is on my Christmas list: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed-Bleeders,942.html

I find that if I remove the bleeder all the way than use the rubber tip from a blow gun on a vacume bleeder than reinstall the bleeder it works for me.

Tim

Try a liberal coat of Never-seez or similar grease consistency stuff on your bleeder threads. I have found it works wonders at keeping the air out when vaccum bleeding as well as keeping the nipples from seizing in alloy calipers.

Cheers

AB

Tim, i recently installed a set of disc brakes on my 26 roadster. i used a vacuum hand pump - it took awhile getting the lines and calipers full of fluid, but after they were bleed they have worked perfectly. i'm thinking that if you are having a problem after your first set-up, you may have a fitting somewhere in the system allowing air to get in to the lines or calipers. also make sure you keep fluid in the reservior.

jb

I used speed bleeders that I bought at PepBoys. They are easy to use, and the ball bearing one way valve stops any return air from getting in.

If I recall right, on Ch*** trucks with hydraulic clutch, you had to raise the front of the truck to get the slave cylinder at an attitude where the air would all escape. The bleed screw was in a position where air was trapped above it.

1. Open the bleeder
2. Have someone gently push the down.
3. Close the bleeder
4. Let the pedal up.
5. Got to one.

Do not pump the pedal up and down several times before bleeding. All this does is stir up the fluid with little bubbels in it.

Word of caution on bleeding brakes: always feed fluid from the MC to the wheels, and not v-v. That stuff gets real nasty after a number of heat cycles, and will mess up master cylinders, and especially ABS controllers.

When I replace pads on a modren car, I hold the pedal depressed by a two foot long stick between the pedal and the seat. That shuts off the return port in the MC. Then I open the bleeder valve at the caliper before pushing the piston back in. A plastic hose into a bottle will catch the ugly fluid.

rdr

I use Roberts method. I either "sweet talk" my wife into operating the pedal or my neighbor, which usually costs me a couple beers. I never open the bleeder valve without pedal pressure and I waste a little brake fluid just to make sure.

Ralph I never thought about the heat damaged fluid at the lower end. Maybe next time I change brake pads before I pry the calipers open, and blow brake fluid out and down the front of the fire wall, I'll bleed them a little and push that fluid out.

Calipers - discs - mastercylinder - I can't find these part in my 1930 Model T partslist :-) but I could like to see some deailed pictures of these conversions.
Are puzzling with planing a hefty Speedster project and could like some braking capability if I am going to tune that Model T block.....

Michael
Try these :
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/67958.html
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/80465.html
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/90270.html
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/68584.html
I think thats most of the more recent ones.
Glenn

I notice a couple of unmentioned tips that might be considered
common knowledge for those with experience, but may be of
help to those trying to learn the procedure for the first time.
Start by bleeding the master cylinder on the bench if it’s just being
replaced. (Not always possible when fitting up a complete install)
Bleed the wheel cylinder or caliper that is farthest from the master
cylinder first, and do the closest wheel to the master cylinder last.
Use a clear plastic hose that’s a tight fit on the bleed valve nipple,
and immerse the other end in a clear container with an inch or so of
brake fluid already in it. This serves a couple of purposes
It lets you see when air bubbles are still present in the stream.
Judging the bottles contents allows you some indication of when
to add more fluid to the master cylinder.
Allows brake fluid to be drawn back into the system instead of air,
for those times when your wife says “I thought you said up” or
when your neighbor has already had those beers.
Other than if (or when) that happens, consider all fluid that you catch
in the container to be dirty and dispose of it properly. Do not reuse.
Wear eye protection – safety “goggles” are best. If you have ever
had brake fluid in your eye - it makes gasoline or a welding flash
seem like sissy stuff! - (Don’t ask)
Do not use brake fluid that has been stored in a poorly sealed container.
it absorbs moisture from the air which turns to spongy steam when
the calipers get super heated. It also creates seal damaging rust in
the cylinder bores.
I probably missed some, and it’s past my bed time – just treat
every thing to do with brakes as if your life depends on it ….

Art

@Glenn: Thx - I was not aware of that this subject has been discussed so much as I would then have tried a forum search :-)
Thanks for the links.
PS: Since this application (disc brakes) leaves no room for tolerances I am impressed that somebody welds narrow MC discs on a Model T drum! Nice craftmanship (but some would probably claim that that was what made "Made in USA" trustworthy?)

I'd add one addition to Art's very good comments. Buy brake fluid in small containers. Once you open a container use as much as you need on the job, put the cap back on, and use the rest as a rough penetrating oil. Do not try to save it and use it again as brake fluid since it likely has absorbed moisture.

Hammer tapping and vacuum bleeding seem to have cleared up the problem again. I was going to stand the car on end and try bleeding it manually per instructions, but it's too stinking hot and damp here right now. I'll deal with it the next time I have to take the rear end out, or on the next install.

Calipers - discs - mastercylinder - I can't find these part in my 1930 Model T partslist :-)

Actually, I'd like to see that '30 "T" parts list ;)