At risk of being flamed, do you think we could keep the old photos on one thread to keep from cluttering the forum? It would still come to the top on each post. Just thinking out loud.
I like it the way it is, occasionally there is good information shared and learned about a photo that I think would be lost if they were all in one big post.
Geez, I thought the old photographs were the ONE thing everybody liked!
I agree with Derek. Perhaps the only thing needs done is to tag the post "old photo". Pass them up or find them more easily. A lot of fun, informative and interesting comments on those threads !
We could always keep all the postings to one per person per year that way we wouldn't clutter up the forum at all!
I love the old photos and could care less how or who or why someone posts what they do. If I don't like it I don't look.
I agree. This forum, photos, OT, or what ever is great just the way it is. I can bring up the forum and pick and choose what I want to look at by just looking down the list. I have tried the "improved" forums on other sites and give up.
When one doesn't approve of a certain thread it's considered "clutter"?
I've never understood what's so hard about skipping over threads you don't like.
I will admit that naming your thread something that identifies it well goes a long way toward being able to skip over them. Sometimes, I find myself clicking on one that I don't care to read because the thread name is not very descriptive and I forgot what it was about. But putting Old Photo at the front ought to be quite good enough for people who don't want to look at old photos. Same goes for OT or even FJ, if that's something you don't want to read.
Jay in Northern California is the primary individual who posts pictures on here - there are others, but he's been the most frequent over the years I've been on here. The vintage photos he posts are GREAT - and in the 15 years I've been visiting this Forum, I cannot remember him failing to add "old photo" to each thread he starts.
The complaining on this place, usually over NOTHING, is becoming endemic.
More old photos please!
Actually, it seems like Jay started putting "Old Photo" in the subject line in response to somebody whining about there being too many. I think that works just fine. Does for me anyway. Makes me want to look.
Yes, I too like the old photographs every week. Missed them when Jay was not posting them awhile back. Gives me something fun to look at inbetween the posts that are more technical. If the post has "old photo" in the heading it works for me.
Here's a post from Jay back in 2014 - clearly titled "Old Photo"
I agree with Hal on properly descriptive subject lines. "Need Help!" doesn't qualify, but "Need help with carburetor problem" does.
I am with Mark. 100%
Ron, it may have been longer ago than that. And I may be wrong, but it sure seems like that is why he started doing it. Maybe he can weigh in and let us know.
The title is Old Photos but mo old photos have been posted. I am deeply offended, and I'm leaving the forum.
Be looking forward to your post this evening Steve!
Steve- apparently you didn't read my guide to using the forum in 2018...
Ah.....got it Hal. Forgot that whining isnít a totally new phenomenon on here. Just more prevalent as of late.
Keep the forum the way it is. Those old original photos are a good source of information, great for reference and discussions. Most all the time, the title says it's a photo so if you don't want to check it out. . . just skip it. There will be plenty of us that will enjoy them and sometimes even learn something from them.
There is a technical difficulty in using one thread for all old photos: those on dial-up will eventually find the thread to be useless as they have to load the entire list of posts just to see the last one.
Why not have a separate complaints thread.
What I believe makes this site popular and active is the simplicity of use, variety of subjects, Model T's being the primary function of the site.
Other sites are complicated and boring. Here you can be looking for a specific topic and discover another topic that gets your attention. Some are interesting, some controversial,some humorous, others offensive. I often get a laugh when cultural differences like language causes raised eyebrows till an explanation of the local meaning is presented. If I said we all needed to put on our thongs and go for a walk, here it means we put on a pair of open foot wear, in other parts of the world it would mean that we all don a skimpy form of underwear and parade about! Isn't a common language wonderful!
The site is not in need of modernising, it works and is user friendly.
Love the old photos along with the other "T" related stuff.
Please keep the old photos coming. They are great!!
I'm baaack! Here's an OT old photo. It was with the old family pictures but I don't recognize any of the people as relatives. I suspect it may be some of the first settlers who arrived here in Cowley County in 1869 or 1870.
Thanks Vern, I think some folks that are privileged to have high speed internet think everyone is on it and those that don't have it don't count. I can't believe the griping has already started in 2018.
Instead of complaining about photos or off topic, post something on topic. Don't some of you have better thing to worry about? If you have/had read anything in the past about OT or such you would understand what the feeling is of most people here about these subjects so why keep dragging it up?
Thank you Chris, thank you Jay.
Steve would that photo have been taken at or just after the Civil War?
I clicked on this post expecting to see an old photo and saw a complaint. Please label post correctly. It should be labeled " Complaint" .
Mark, my uneducated guess would be within a few years after the war. It could be early settlers here in 1869, or perhaps boomers before the 1888 land rush. I'm not familiar enough with nineteenth century clothing styles to make an educated guess.
I hope Mark O. will say something here about old photographs. I'm probably wrong, but I'd think photos from the 60s would be Daguerrotypes (sp ?) or tintypes. Prints on paper look like they'd be later , maybe they're boomers ?
Here I am. By the 1860s the daguerreotype had gone out of fashion. The options were albumen prints and salted paper prints from wet collodion on glass negatives. The wet collodion tintype [direct positive on black painted iron] and the ambrotype [direct positive on glass] were also popular portrait mediums at that time. Interestingly ... I was making a wet collodion tintype just a few minutes ago here at the Museum. Fixed in cyanide ... yum!
The image Steve has posted looks like it was originally copied from and albumen print.
How about naming the photos? Or something like that to make them easier to find with the Forum search.
Thanks Mark !! Much appreciated.
I hate to disagree with Mark, but I think it was a Polariod that somebody shook too hard!
Isn't that YOU?!?!
As Mark pointed out, you can't necessarily date a photo by the print. That print could very well have been made from an old collodion negative long after the picture was taken.
This picture of my mom (left) and her sisters is from a 100-year-old negative. A well preserved negative can produce new prints forever.
My two cents, the forum is fine as it is and love Jays pics!
Andy you have been Flamed!
Steve, you are very lucky to have that negative of your mom and her sisters. Very cool.
I tell my wife "How can we look ahead without looking at our past." She doesn't like that statement.
I think Iím with Andy on this one.
I love the old pictures. How nice it would be to go straight to the old picture section and look through them once in a while like I do with the Northwest Vintage Speedster pictures or the ones on the other website. There are dozens of original speedster pictures to see without going thru a hundred pictures that Iím not interested in at the moment.
As it is, in a few days we will have one hell of a time finding a picture of Steveís mother when she was a little lady.
Not sure why anyone likes these old stupid photos anyway! Look at the way it was back then with no internet or I-Phones, and all those stupid old dirt roads to drive down! I bet some of these rubes even slowed down the jalopy they were driving to talk to a neighbor or two. These photos have no place in today's society, and should probably be banned!. Shame on you Jay, and others for the hurt you might have caused by your reckless postings!
I love the photo's. I don't enjoy the comments when they are supposed to be "funny". It's tiring to start reading only to find that someone's just polishing their ego by getting something on the forum no matter if it decreases the quality of the string.
That said, I wouldn't mind a separate site for photos and comments that add additional information to the topic. Just keep the photos coming however.
We definitely need new software with multiple categories. That way, we can have dry technical discussion with no pictures in one category, pictures with no comments in another category, pictures with serious dry technical discussion in another category, pictures with humorous comments in another category....
Keep them coming! I look forward to them every morning. It gives me something to do while drinking my coffee.
Hal- too funny! I'm LMAO...
I like the forum just the way it is. If the OLD PHOTO posts are labeled as such I can easily find them. Folks who don't enjoy them can pass them by. I'm sad if any of the "humor" detracts from the thread for some. Many seem to enjoy it more than the name calling and backbiting.
No matter how we try to revise or improve the forum some will not like the change. Change is inevitable and we will get used to it if we can.
I have always deferred to Chris's or Bruce's good judgement. They have given generously of their time and know more of what is involved than I do.
For those who didn't see this in my post Making a Tintype of a Tin Lizzie ... here is a tintype of Steve Jelf in his '15 runabout. I shot it off the computer screen using a model T era camera and the wet collodion tintype technique. The picture shows trimming the metal plate to get rid of the computer screen graphics.
Hah! Chris changed the thread title...
Mark O. how long does it take to make a picture like that? Thank you for the demonstration. Thank you all for the forum which to me is just right as is. Dave in Bellingham,WA
About twenty years to get good at the process ... about eight minutes to make the image. :-) Can make an even better one if the original digital picture is done in better lighting. Cloudy bright days are always better than full sun.
Leave it as is... This is probably one of the most active and informative forums on the internet... I like it as-is with OT, photos, Marvel mystery oil and all... I am also on a retro-camper forum, that deals with vintage looking retro trailers. There have been two new (as in number 2) posts in the last 2 months. If this forum was changed to fit every ones personal likes, it would die and wither away.
usually the old photos are the only things I look at, unless i need help with something and see a relevant post.
Another vote for "leave it". Not everyone has access to high speed internet. Posts with many pictures can take forever to load and will usually be canceled by users without HS connections. So they will loose the option viewing the pictures all together. A stand alone picture post with comments loads pretty quick.
The best "feature" of this site is its text base format. It's super fast to load and navigate-- Unlike most modern VBS driven sites with ad pollution and scripts.
"The best "feature" of this site is its text base format. It's super fast to load and navigate-- Unlike most modern VBS driven sites with ad pollution and scripts."
So very very true. If I was to make websites, they'd be like this one. Then you could have more than 2 tabs open without crashing a computer. Someone I know has the most powerful gaming computer around, and still can't open more than 79 tabs without crashing.
Leave it as it is.
And, Jay, please keep them coming. I love them. Especially when there is an old photo and a current photo of the same thing.
I like the mix of text and old photos. Made me want to join and keeps me coming back.
I agree with Andy. The photos would be better in one post. Maybe like the "what have you done to your T" post. Start a new post on photos once a month. A lot of questions or concerns get buried under OT and photo post.
I certainly like the mix of old photos and text.
Thank you, Mark O. A week late in Bellingham, WA..ds
Stay the course, old photos are great
In a post by itself yes. But 50% of total post being old photos? That just pushes questions and concerns to the bottom. At the bottom where they don't get seen by many.
A particular individual is intentionally doing it to prove a point. I like the old pics as good as the next guy, but your concern of 1-11-18 is certainly noted.
"It's Like Dťjŗ Vu All Over Again"
I love the old photos and think we don't have enough lately! Some of the complaints lately make me wonder how the poster found time to post his complaint away from yelling at the microwave for taking so long!
P.S. I am finding it takes longer getting through this "Ford" content to get to the Maxwell stuff I so desperately need, LOL
leave the pics alone, best thing we got going.we learn more from them than anywhere else. charley
I have to say I agree with what Hal says.
Love to see "some" photos now and then and it keeps the site interesting, but there can be too much of a good thing when you need help with a question.
Side note; Jay was posting photos in one string on the old International Forum. The problem was, that the string got very long and by time you saw and wanted to make comments the photo was way up the string.
This guy is just trying to clog the forum with pictures like the spammers clog the forum with their SPAM. It amuses him that people complain about it being clogged with SPAM, but that they enjoy it being clogged with old pictures.
I wonder if we should have OT thread for complaints or even a separate category like the Vintage Ford thread. That way all the complaints are in one location and the vast majority can ignore them without reading the misleading titles.....
Only kidding but complaints are a pain in the ass.
This topic seems to come up frequently and I can always see both sides, though I am on the side that I like things just the way they are. Most days ALL I ACTUALLY LOOK FOR are the "Old Photo" posts. And I really enjoy the conversations that take place about any given photograph, that would certainly be lost if all photos were in one thread. That being said, if someone is looking for technical threads, then they can get lost in all of the other threads. The only way to really organize things would be to change up the entire board. If I had my way, I'd organize this forum a lot like I arranged the Maxwell Forum. By having a few different sections, you can keep things a bit easier to manage and easier to find.
Then again, I like this forum just the way it is, generally. It is certainly a heck of a lot better than the crummy Yahoo Group pages.
R U SURE ?
Personally I like ALL the content but it would be nice to have sections devoted to the more popular areas of interest and old photos are one of them.
The person who came up with the Model T Encyclopedia came up with something similar and it works pretty good. I guess there will always be a thread that comes up about how the forum is arranged and while it goes on I'll be looking at the different threads and pass over the ones that's of no interest to me. Pretty simple really.
Here's one for discussion...
Let's put things into perspective. Tim has posted photos so heavily that he dominates well over half the top 50 posts on this forum. Many of you think this just fine. So let's say I started doing the same. What if 5 more started doing the same? Still Ok? What if only 10 people did the same? Still ok? Its only 10 of several hundred members. Small percentage really. Would something be done then?
So is it going to be you who determines how many posts an individual makes? How many posts will it be? How will that work? Would it be per day/week/month? What will be the criteria? Will it be based on content or your preference? What if someone makes one post and it gets regular replies and stays at the top? Will this carry over to the classifieds as well?
Please let us know how this would work...
Thanks for bringing this to the top.
It reminds me of the racehorse trainer being told there were too many flies around his stall. He asked "How many are we allowed?"
I donít mind pictures on the forum. Most I enjoy. The present problem is caused by a guy that is doing it only to get a reaction, and that is a problem. Itís called trolling. I donít know what itís going to take to get something done about it. I know of one very knowledgeable forum poster that was banned for much less.
"I don't know what it's going to take to get something done about it"
Wanna help me spam the forum with a couple hundred pictures a day for a few days?
Are you guys all nuts? The old photo's are the best part of this forum.
All threads that are pictures are usually marked "Old Photo's". If you don't like it, skip past the Old Photo subject. How hard is that? Give me a break. You guys need to get a life or find something else to complain about.
This is a Model T forum. The old photos are part of the Model T history.
They sure beat the hero worship threads!
tom k, right on!!!!!!!!!!!! charley
1926 Canadian Coupe...
Personally, I think some guys just have too much time on their hands so find something to bitch about. This has to be by far the best old car forum anywhere so why try to fix it when it's NOT broken. If you don't like the photos, skip to the other topics or go watch TV. I think that the photos a great as they send me back to an era that I can imagine being in with my Model T, and reminds me why I have a Model T in the first place. To the photo posters: Thank you, and keep up the good work as it makes a great forum even better
Hal. Tim is already doing that.I hope Tom does not have any question or technical issues He want to post, because they will be buried in the PHOTO SPAM in a matter of Minutes. I like old photos too but enough is enough. Tom if You want to see lots of photos go to the photo company sites directly that's where He gets them. They have thousands that You not Him get to choose from. With out helping to destroy a Model T discussion forum meant for technical discussions about model Ts, not The Photo Gallery it has become.
Bruce how can you even find other topics when in a matter of minutes they are twenty posts down in the photo spam.
It is broken when it becomes just an old photo forum. Anyone can do a google search and find millions of pics like he is doing. Its just ridiculous to clutter the forum like he is doing.
Hal, I say we just bump the non clutter post to the top.
10-4 A hundred can do one better than one can do a hundred. and there no fool like a old fool who couldn't smell the coffee if it spilled in their lap.
The new poster boy for spammers everywhere. Sorry I had to include everywhere as I did not want to appear a bigot per the spam king
Tim has cleverly found a way to inundate our forum with legal spam. His endless photo bombs are having the same effect as spam by drowning out legitimate Model T discussions and interaction among the members, while giving him a soapbox by which to issue blanket attacks against all MTFCA members that we are bigots, create discord, get attention and claim victim status that we are trying to silence him. Jim Patrick
Dittos Dittos Dittos Tim Rogers
Andy, if you don't want to see them, don't click on them? How difficult is it to scroll a half inch to click on what you want. I enjoy the posted pictures. Thank you!
Art. Due to all the pictures, one has to scroll a lot farther than 1/2Ē. Itís not so much the pictures I personally object to, but the person posting the pictures and his underlying motivation for doing so. Take a moment and research his past posts where he accuses all MTFCA forum participants of being hateful bigots. If you donít mind being called a bigot and accused of being a racist for being against spam and spammers, then continue supporting and encouraging him. The pictures are just an innocent front until his next attack against the forum. Jim Patrick
Andy can you please answer my question I really dont get it?
Jim that did not sound like andys reason
Jim, I don't want to get into an argument. That is not me. But when I read a thread about how to fix the rear end in a model T, or change a tire, I don't look at or question the background of the poster. If i don't have the patience to scroll 2 inches to get past the picture threads, I don't have the patience to drive a Model T.
I am new to the forum I hope I am not wrong.
Art. Here is one of Tim's typical post's.
By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks NY on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 03:22 pm:
Video of a Model T fire with an OE harness...
Welcome to the forum Art. Beautiful T you have there and a nice place to work on it too. Jim Patrick.
Jim Davis I can't comment on the Video because I don't understand it.I am glad that I don't.
That video has to be the shittiest wiring harness I've ever seen!
Boy that is a lot of pictures today. I see what you mean sorry.
It might be interesting if the photos were from a personal collection, but any moron can go on the internet and send pictures. I like old pictures but maybe enough is enough.
Art. Being new to the forum, of course you donít know about Tim Rogers but older members have had to put up with him for too long. None of us understands why Tim Rogers does the things he does. Only he does. That video is just one of the many bizarre things he does to ridicule and undermine what this forum stands for. This has always been a place where we could come and talk Model Tís with those we have have things in common with, however, Tim Rogers is a thorn that constantly insults the members here. As I said. Do a search of his past posts and you will find out for yourself what an agitator he is, then perhaps, when you become familiar with his tactics, you will not be so quick to embrace him. I, for one do not take being called a racist lightly and in his attacks he has accused us all, as a group, of this most vile thing. Members can accuse me of being overly sensitive, but I take that accusation very seriously and will not tolerate it. None of us should tolerate it. Jim Patrick
I still think you can just go past them. I like them....
Good point Art. I respect your opinion. Again, welcome to the forum. It has not always been this contentious and hopefully will get back to the way it used to be. Jim Patrick
I believe you 100 percent Jim Patrick. Now I get it. Had no clue! Thanks!
If you anti-photo guys really think he is trying to subvert the forum, then all your negative postings are playing into him, and he must be enjoying himself. The forum content has become boring, with all the repeat problems, and hero worship, I now spend about five minutes a day on it. Now I can understand the repeat problems because of the large number of newbies on here, and I'm not complaining about it.
Jim, I spend most of my time working in the garage. I don't have time to chase down photo sites. My only complaint is now I am spending more time here because there is something interesting to spend time on.
The "Andy" you keep addressing started this thread in January and has not been back on it since. I don't remember seeing him on here lately. And he did not start it in reference to Tim. It was started in reference to someone else who was posting more pictures than some thought appropriate, but they were posting them for the interest of all and certainly with no malice intended. I, among most others, defended the picture posts at that time, saying to just skip over them etc. But, the volumes were nowhere NEAR the volumes that Tim is posting lately. Nowhere NEAR! I mean NOWHERE NEAR! They were posting maybe 10 a day, where Tim is probably doing 100 or more. Someone brought this thread back to the top a couple of days ago because they thought it was timely subject matter. I agree. Tim's intentions are not to entertain anyone other than himself. As Jim pointed out, he has found a way to annoy everyone, with the exception of you and a couple of others, and disrupt the forum without technically breaking the rules. He likes to defend those that spam our forum with ads for counterfeit money and illegal drugs, calling them "Medication". And for all I know, he could be the one doing some of it. I see some new ones on here today that don't look like the others. Who knows? Whether he is or not, his picture posting is nothing more than an attempt to disrupt the forum. Anyone who cannot see that, is either not paying attention or is as bad as he is.
Too much of any one thing is not good, even the photo spam.
Tom K, of course he's enjoying himself. Read his smug replies to anyone who posts to his excessive photo posts. I can smell his sarcasm all the way from Ecuador
Thanks Hal, I didn't notice this was an old thread resurrected. It does seem appropriate now however
Please note that at no time have I said anything negative about the photos themselves. I find some that I spend quite some time examining. If, like me, you do most of your browsing on a tablet, the posts really run together. Best case we be a separate area for photos like the new Vintage Ford area.
Andy- don't worry about it. I believe very few people took your original post in a negative way. Besides, anyone who doesn't want to view photos can do as Hal stated above- "I've never understood what's so hard about skipping over threads you don't like."
Seems it would be a busy time of year at the parts counter for you to have this much time to post on a forum.
Yes, Tim. And that worked just fine until you started spamming the hell out of the forum with 10 times the volume of Old Photos than anyone ever conceived of. Surely, you weren't raised to be this way.
Possibly change your posts to TR sorta like FJ then the vast majority of us won't have to look at your photo spam.
Sadly I have stopped looking at the photos, which I enjoy due to your um..... to put it nicely, misdirected exuberance
maybe i get tired of weeding out all the junk to get to tha pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!! charley
Hey Charlie alot of us come on the forum to read about technical information in the threads. I understand you already know more about Model Ts than most on here thats why you just want to look at pictures!!!!!!!! But these guys are right... if you post a question it is pushed so far down the list by picture spamming that some might not even see it. I dont get what this guy is doing.
"Calling Chris... Where are you?"
At least Burger had some technical content, sometimes irritating, but always amusing. He is missed by many of us.
Charley, I agree with you. If you made a list of all the junk on the forum, it would be much more than Tim's pictures. I won't complain about the junk posts because it is so easy to bypass them. Doesn't take a brain surgeon, I just don't get it. If it was one of the hero's posting these pictures, the forum would be all ga-ga about it.
Marv, you found Burger to be amusing? He was disgusting. Don't compare this to him. Tim has come up with some excellent T pictures.
Whether its "Taken with a grain of salt, or like water off a duck's back...." (Some will be saltier, or wetter than we may like. There are all kinds.) I never let him get to me, just tried to understand. Some will choose to let something bother them, or choose not to. I choose the "not to".
Tom K, who are these "Hero's" you keep referring to?
Marv, Soooo..... Why are the photos getting to you?? I don't understand your logic.
John, you must be new to the forum
Who said they were "Getting to me?" Try not putting words to someone else and being a troll.
"Even Fly S*&t becomes irritating. Do you wash behind your ears?"
(When one is miserable with themselves, they want to get others into their sinking boat too.) Very sad. Have a great life!
We are only temporary guests here.
"Life" is 'Terminal' - Celebrate Living!
Tom K, not really that new to the Forum, one click on my profile and you could have probably figured that out. You on the other hand don't seem to have much history here other than your approval of a temper tantrum that clogged up the Forum for the last few days. So there's that.
Tom_K, 57 posts. John Noonan, 1,661 posts. Hmmm! Whose new?
I love the old photos, Thanks to you great guys and PLEASE keep them coming!!!
Oh I had to check out who this Andy character is, Wow nice speedster Andy. Good thing you have a fast getaway car
I agree with John Warren.And Andy,That is the best looking speedster I have ever seen.
Me to John Warren. Andy,That is the best looking speedster I have ever seen.
I will NEVER understand the complete lack of self-control or maturity to just "move on" if you don't like a thread! I am NOT flaming the Op, as this is a daily occurrence on almost every forum & definitely on Facebook!
Some folks just have too much time on their hands.
Harry, this forum has always had a healthy balance of great tech advice, friendly OT's about anything some forum members think the knowledgeable folks here could help them with, and the great photo's posted here with the sincerest of intentions. Unfortunately, this was not the case in this situation.
That's a nice touch dale w. Many of us have improvements we could add to the forum. I suppose a new section on how to make the forum better could be added. I think it would be a never ending battle of differing opinions. The Forum is pretty wonderful and successful the way it is. I would hate to see it improved out of existence.
Just my thoughts.
By the way, I see a comment from Perry Kete early in the discussion. I miss him. ;O(
Richard, Perry Keet is still with us under a different name but a bit more toned down