Thanks to the rise of Liberalism and the PC movement please review the following guidelines concerning 2018 thread titles if you are easily offended or believe that the Forum should cater to you only:
1. "OT"- stands for "off topic" and therefore you won't find die hard disillusioned testimonies of kevlar here.
2. "Old Photo"- in addition to antique vehicles there may be non automotive content pictured as well but probably no 12 volt batteries.
3. "____" Parts Service- unobtainable customer satisfaction related content.
4. "Oil Recommendation?"- definitive and undisputed engine oil specifications can be found here.
5. "How Many Run Without ___?"- here you will find out what OE parts are not needed on your T.
6. "Marvel Mystery Oil"- all the proven science behind the miracle in a bottle.
7. "AC Brakes"- to help those foolish enough to own and operate a Model T as it was originally built.
8. "Two Piece Club"- for undeniable and undisputed proof that all OE crankshafts are going to break.
9. "Chickashaw"- negative pre event news followed by post show disappointments.
10. "Vintage Ford"- this is where you will discover who was the first to receive the latest issue.
Hope this helps and feel free to add to the list.
11. ECCT vs. HCCT vs. Strob-0-Spark- all the latest on why your coils are useless unless they have been run through one of these contraptions, even if they have performed flawlessly for decades as they are
12. Patina vs. Restored -conclusive proof as to which is the most desirable form of preservation, wholly dependent on which category your vehicle fits into
13. Barn find vs. found in a barn where previous owner parked it months ago.
Hell, I'm still tying to learn just how many parts you can replace before your car is a "bitsa"
Funniest thread this year!!!
Darryl, the minute someone changed an inner tube on your runabout back in 1926, it became a "bitsa." That's unless you believe the term is complete BS - that they are ALL bitsas by this point - and should have been retired long ago (despite the Holy Writ of Turin worshiped by a few zealots on here).
14. Why wont it start?- 101 possible ways to try to get your "T" to start before you finally break down and change out those 101 year-old, worn-out spark plugs.
15. MAY CONTAIN HUMOR. Of course it is always debatable as to how funny. I suspect some prefer only serious topics.
Very clever, Tim. -I like your sense of humor.
Thank you Bob- at least one person gets me...
I hope I am not the only Aussie without the latest Vintage Ford?
I don't have to wait for my vintage Ford.
It's parked in the garage. LOL.
16- Finding true free neutral.
My personal favorite.
Thanks to club members finally found it in 2017
I thought this forum was getting a little stale. Thanks for the laugh Tim. I REALLY enjoyed that.
This sandal wearing Tree hugger had enough of wet feet after a year in the Jungles of Vietnam. I wore flip flops as much as possible to dry out my feet and still do today. As for trees they provided much needed shade and protection from Monsoon rains not to mention they were good for stopping deadly metal objects. You have a problem with that.
If you maintain an original car from factory. It is original.
Changing the tyre, replacing the air in the tyre with pure nitrogen, is acceptable.
If you build a 1915 car from found parts, get it titled as 1915 brass era car and use either a black shell or nickel shell motor for the vin, it is a bitsa.
Offering the car on ebay built from parts as a rare vehicle is acceptable only on certain days. These days are selected at random by the forum review staff. And there is much criticism of what is out of place on the said car. This is OK.
John, the thing about finding true free neutral is it's always in the last place you look.
You keep telling yourself that George....a prophet is never accepted in his own land.
Doug, that's not nice! Why would you hope others are so unfortunate?
Seriously, I had an email today, apologising for the delay. All were issued later to allow a late inclusion of the opening of the Bruce McCalley library. There are problems with the distribution system and we had Christmas in the middle of it all. I was invited to let them know if it had not arrived by 10 Jan, and a replacement would be sent first class.
Allan from down under.
How original can aT be? Kim,s 1910 is about as original as a T can be. If You're the basic T is original with replacement parts as needed to keep it running, it is not a bitsa.
This thread, or over the fence gossip piece, is listed as "A Practical Guide For The Easily Offended Forum User."
But... what about NOS vs NNS vs ROS vs Barn Fresh?
1. Subsection A; Originality - interested parties can discover the universally and undisputed accepted definition of an "original" automobile.
Of the 15 million Model Ts produced (all years lumped together) and a guest-mated survival rate of 2 to 3 %, there are 200,000 factory original cars available for an enthusiast.
That leaves room for a bunch of bitsas. Nothing wrong with a bitsa, but my concern is a new person coming into the hobby buying what is purported to be an original vintage Model T. A brass radiator and a black radiator engine.
The bitsa could out number the original 200,000 surviving original cars.
At some point, may be, a standard could be established as to what is considered a vintage Model T.
The Bentley Owners Club has this for a standard:
" Just the chassis has to be original. The car can have a Austin body and Ford engine and it is still an original Vintage Bentley. If it has a Bentley body and Bentley engine but is not on an original chassis it can still be a Vintage Bentley but it is not an original Vintage Bentley. "
Let us face it, the hobby is attracting new faces and blood. Many new owners born years after the last Model T was produced. Most of us, that are still vertical, had a mentor who grew up with a Model T and they had the skills to keep the car running with the proverbial baling wire and hammer. They passed those skills on to us.
Maybe you should buy a Bentley. What is and what isn’t a Model T seems to be keeping you up at night.
Bruce McCalley’s book contains a profile of a 1917 Couplet (p. 244) that was upgraded by the original owners in 1922 with a starter engine. Dealer upgrades were not uncommon - and some service bulletins RECOMMENDED dealer replacement of an “original” part with a later, improved design. But by the “logic” espoused above, these are now “bitsas.” Utter nonsense.
Ford Motor Company assembled Model Ts on a mass scale from a mass stockpile of parts. There was no hand-fitting, individually crafted vehicles rolling out of Highland Park. When a component failed, it was replaced with a like component at a dealership, by a blacksmith or by the owner: that is why the car was designed as it was by Henry Ford (who would probably be amused at all this bitsa/real T idiocy because parts interchangeability was one of his design objectives and
If the intent of this constant deceased equine flogging is to “help” prospective new T hobbyists (as it is purported to be by the most zealous of floggers), it is probably unduly alarming them - dissuading them from taking the plunge. This ain’t rocket science - and the inventor didn’t intend it to be - nor is the Model T a Bentley - and the inventor didn’t intend it to be. It’s a simple, durable car with readily available , interchangeable parts that can be fixed (in most cases) by the owner; just as Mr. Ford intended.
Thinking about buying a T because it looks like fun? Good - because they are. Do a little research (as you would with any purchase from a lawnmower to a cable TV package) - know what you’re buying and what a reasonable price for it should be. When you’ve completed your research, you should know enough to recognize what a Model T looks, sounds, smells and handles like. Find something that meets those “standards” and it’s in your budget? Then buy it and enjoy “the blessing of hours of pleasure in God’s great open spaces” as Ford intended. Leave the nonsense of “bitsa,” what does the Code of Turin say, what standard does the Bentley club use to those with nothing better to do than debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Find a mentor who understands what the Model T is truly about and doesn’t wring his/her hands over whether you have the correct color spark plug wires.
There are those who will strive for perfection and leave no stone unturned in search of a org model T! While this is a noble cause,it can cost a lot of money,trouble,and work! A wise man has told us over and over,[The loudest boo's come from the cheapiest seats]!!!!!Bud.
I must admit I don't post here as much as I used to, but this is an interesting thread. I have enjoyed the advice of many here, and offered much of my own where I have felt I could help. This is indeed a very good forum full of very helpful hobbyists, we must carry on like that.
There is virtue to Off Topic posts, they let you hear from people outside your normal clique on subjects you wouldn't normally hear about. It's especially useful when those ideas come from the other side of the world.
I guess the thing I'd like to ask is wether you all think we've become less civil, less willing to listen, more polarised and more likely to conflate attacks on people with robust discussion of ideas.
Everyone seems to take everything personally. I reckon the rise of social media has divided people like never before. We've got access to almost all the information man has ever published and perversely you can now choose your news source not to broaden the mind but rather to suit your preconceptions, be they alt facts or fake news, kevlar or cotton.
So having an outlet that bursts that bubble is useful isn't it?
I always liked this thread, it raged for days and though I'd probably be less forthright now, I'm fascinated to read it so many years on...
Do you think the tone has changed?
In any case... we'd better stir the pot before the thread is deleted by the fun police, though I will thank the moderators for their hard work.
Standard is great and E timers are excellent.
20w50 detergent oil.
the earth isn't flat.
water pumps are rubbish.
climate change is getting worse.
distributors are also rubbish.
universal single payer healthcare is best.
but I have no opinion on Wards Riverside tyres, new or old I've never owned one.
Have fun blokes
Love when people say they have a 100% fully restored car as it left the factory. You can never really “restore” a model T to exactly how it was from the factory. There are always concessions in the materials that are made today such as upholstery materials ... paint ... etc.
Ron is giving very good advise.
First we do not need guidelines to own or maintain our cars -- examples include Code of Turin or the AACA judging guidelines of the efforts of the Historic Vehicle Association. Even the Secretary of the Interiors Standards for Historic Preservation.
And remember the Bruce McCalley’s book, it is just a guideline for the car.
A dealer conversion to a starter was a period acceptable change. A 21st century update of a brass to electric is not a dealer period conversion.
As for doing research there is a mass of information on popular collectable cars...https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/10-cars-that-were-just-too-dangerous-to-d rive.html/2/ Very informative on the dangers of a Model T and others collectables.
Or search sites as Car Guru to find a vehicle https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/questions/Ford-Model-T-Questions-qt426. Very informative what changes can be made to improve a Model T.
I am not certain if a compromise can be reached but there are many ways to own a Model T from trailer queen or original driver, to even the doodle bug. I favour the as factory original as possible as a driver.