Old Photo - Early Brass Era - Lady Driver

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Old Photo - Early Brass Era - Lady Driver
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 10:22 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 10:23 am:

Model R


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 12:30 pm:

Cool picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 03:06 pm:

Jay,

Great photo -- thank you for posting it and so many of the other great photos. If you can give me a lead on where I might obtain a higher resolution scan/copy -- that would be appreciated. I've been trying to document the paint schemes used on the 1906-1908 Model N, R, S, & SR cars for years. That photo clearly shows the light-colored wheels, springs, running board brackets, and frame. I suspect that is a cream color. I also suspect that a higher resolution copy would confirm the front axle is also the lighter color.

Jerry -- I'm always looking for better ways to tell the 1907 Model R Runabout from the late 1907 into 1908 Model S Runabout. They share the same fenders, running boards, running board brackets, hood, engine, flat dash, top ironing, top, etc.
The Model R Runabout does have the larger 30 x 3 clincher wheels and tires while the Model S Runabout has the smaller 28 x 3 clincher wheels and tires (same as the Model N Runabout). And the S Runabout and later N Runabout (not the 1906 slightly smaller body) share the same body with the pointed deck while the R has the rounded rear deck. If you have some items that are helping you know for sure it is a Model R Runabout, would you please share them so I can look for those also in the future?

Note from that photo I cannot tell for sure if it is a Model R Runabout or a Model S Runabout.

I thought the light color chassis might mean it was a Model S Runabout, but while I have documentation on the cream color chassis for the Model S Runabout, I have a posting that the Model R Runabout had also been offered with the cream running gear. Which doesn't make sense to me based on what is published in the 1908 Sales Brochure.

At: http://www.mtfca.com/books/1908.htm the 1908 Ford Sales Brochure in the Model S Runabout section has:
________

So the "S" [Runabout] may be said to combine the choicest features of those two wonderfully popular models [Model N Runabout & Model R Runabout], at a cost of $50 less than Model "R."

To distinguish them from the other two, model "S" cars are painted Brewster Green as to body with cream running gear.
__________

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 03:15 pm:

Besides the difference in trunk shape, didn't the R and S have different size wheels?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 04:30 pm:

Hap,

Those wheels look very large to me, so I decided on Model R. Just can't imagine that they're 28x3, however, I may still be in error.

Would be handy perhaps, to determine a scale factor, comparing the size of wheels to some other known dimension on the car. For example, if we can agree that all NRS radiators are 20" tall, (I have no idea if that's true by the way), and a wheel is 30" in diameter, then the wheel-to-radiator ratio is 1.5. Looking at a photo, such as above, we can measure the height of the radiator and the wheel in the photo. If the ratio agrees: 30x3. Obviously, this can be tricky. Photos taken at 3/4 views will induce distortions in length, but heights of features located within close proximity to each other are usually shown "head-on", so to speak. Fuzzy photos don't help much either. Anyway, food for thought.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 04:51 pm:

Hap That's the best that photo gets. Sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 05:41 pm:

Can someone enlarge this please


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 05:45 pm:

Here you go. Kind of fuzzy.


pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, January 04, 2018 - 08:38 pm:

Jay -- thanks.

Jerry -- We know the wheel flange is 5 inches for all the N,R,S & SR cars if they have the factory hub. But I have not had much success in using that 5 inch measurement to determine if a wheel is for a 28 x 3 clincher or a 30 x 3 clincher. And of course the actual rim size is not 28 or 30 inches. I.e. a 30 x 3 inch clincher for the Model R Runabout (also Model S Roadster) is a 24 inch rim (25 if you include the rolled beaded area). And a 28 x 3 inch clincher for the Model N Runabout and the Model S Runabout would be a 22 inch rim.

Below is an illustration showing the 30 x 3 on the left and the Model T rear 30 x 3 1/2 on the right. Those are not theoretical, but are what I measured a while back. (OK - I used a tape measure -- so I could be off a little.)



I looked for, but I did not find the postings discussing how they come up with the rim sizes for the tires. From memory -- and it works for those two illustrations it is the Diameter of the tire i.e. the 30 inches for a Model T minus 2 X the width. If someone has a link to one of those discussions would you please add it?

And of course with the resolution on the photo above -- I could not really compare the hub flange to the rim. Perhaps someone else with better eyes or with better computer skills maybe able to do that?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tod Wirth - Richfield, WI on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 02:24 pm:

Those wheels sure look like the larger 30 X 3's used on the Model R.

The photo is way too grainy to clearly see the outline of the hub so this is definitely not scientific, but every time I tried to measure the wheel diameter using the hub as reference, I came up with the rim OD (with rolled edge) as being very close to the 25" of the 30 X 3's. It didn't ever come close to the 23" of the 28 X 3 that are on my Model N.



Once again not scientific or conclusive but I would have to say they are 30 X 3's and it is a Model R.


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