OT - forgive me- horseless carriage

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: OT - forgive me- horseless carriage
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Friday, January 05, 2018 - 10:51 pm:

One project that has been rattling around in my head is to build a horseless carriage replica. I want wooden spokes, not bicycle wheels and tires. It has to have tiller steering. The one area that I am most undecided about is the engine. I don't want a lawnmower motor, that looks like a lawnmower motor. I'm wondering what kind of engine can be modified to look "period correct". Anybody else got ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:20 pm:

I wonder if the Curved Dash Olds might be the right choice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:44 pm:

I have worked that same puzzle many times and not come up with a solution. It is a Grand idea.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert G. Hester Jr., Riverview, FL on Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:59 pm:

I gave this some thought a few years back and felt like the Cushman 4 H.P. grain binder engine might be the right one. It would have somewhat the right look and the right sound. Maybe under powered. Cushman also made a two cylinder 8 H. P. version but I think the single sounds better. Take a look at a few of them on you-tube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:59 pm:

If I recall correctly, my subscription of Popular Mechanics magazine laid out plans for building a Curved Dash Olds replica. My belief is that was in the latter 1950's or even in the early 60's. If someone does know how to research for this, please let us know about it. Just wishing I had kept those old issues... (But then too, I wish I was 21 again.) Thanks.

Take Care; Behave; Stay Warm (and)
"Happy T-ing!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 12:02 am:

Found this site for a reference. Might help?

http://www.horselesscarriagereplicas.com/plans.html

"Happy T-ing!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Grisbee---Cheyenne Wyo on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 12:21 am:

Tommy,
I have a 1922-23 2-cyl horizontally opposed Autocar truck engine,missing manifolds and ignition but looks very restorable. Should be a good dependable motor with reasonable power. Does have the flywheel and turns over a ways. Have been asking $1250. Holler if interested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 02:11 am:

Some where lost in the vast collection of paper I have are the plans that were sold by PM. It would have been late 60's or early 70's when I got mine. I think it was called the Dalton or very close to that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 07:13 am:

Gary Hammond who posts here builds some impressive horseless carriage repilcas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond-Forest, Va on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 07:54 am:

I've built a few lol! PM me and I'll try to help. I've used 13hp gas engines, a 3cyl Kubota diesel, and a Ranger running chassis for a '32 Indy Ford roadster I'm building now. Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 09:11 am:

I just might have that issue of PM, or another. I'll have to check later today. This morning it's 12 degrees out, so it's probably 6 degrees in my garage. The owner of our local Oldsmobile dealership, that I worked for, had a curved dash Olds replica that was built and sold in the late 50s or early 60s. It had a Cushman kick-start scooter engine. The kick-start pedal stuck through a slot under the seat and could be "kicked" from the drivers seat. The owner passed away several years ago, leaving his daughter with the business. I recently talked to her and found that the replica car has been sold. A local junkyard owner/operator, now deceased, had an opposed twin engine on display for years that he believed was an early airplane engine. I always thought that it was more likely an early car or truck engine, because it appeared that no, or little effort was made to lighten the engine. It was all cast iron except maybe for the carburator. It probably got scrapped when he died.
Gary H, does the green wagon still steer by pivoting in the center or turn at the spindles?
Is it a converted from horse drawn?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 09:40 am:

I vaguely remember that PM article as well.
I wonder if an older Vespa motorscooter 2-stroke would work? It wouldn't have the period sound, but it does have a built-in kickstarter and transmission. Any semi-modern motor will be a much higher rpm engine then one of the period in question. I think if it's the sound you're after, you are pretty much stuck with finding a vintage engine; if it's just looks, you most likely could disguise an older snowblower engine as what you want. I had a 60's-vintage Simplicity snowblower that had an 8 hp Briggs & Stratton one-lunger that would probably do the job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 09:55 am:

A small air-cooled engine from the Hit & Miss era would be a good choice such as a Ideal, Bluffton or an Associated/United.
They are plentiful, you can still get parts for them and the have the right "look".
I would favour the Associated myself- I've had a few and they always start easily and run very nice.

These engines are light-weight (comparatively....) and could be adapted to a horseless carriage with a little ingenuity.
PLUS you can't beat the sight of those dual spinning flywheels hanging down under the buggy!



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Braverman on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 10:03 am:

Why not just buy the real thing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Sears-Model-J-Buggy-Original-MGM-car/282798513438? _trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49452%26meid%3De3d8c2f b466b4601913eedf4904f4b07%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D282798513438& _trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%253Aa8360778-f2f2-11e7-b863-74db d18062e3%257Cparentrq%253Acbfee40d1600aa472cd699c6ffe00088%257Ciid%253A1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond-Forest, Va on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 02:46 pm:

Tommy it turns by tiller down the shaft to a shaft mounted pitman arm that is attached to each homemade spindle by tie-rods and ball tie rod ends. The original 1897 was based on a horse-drawn trap. Mine is a replica, modern made and scratch built in my basement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond-Forest, Va on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 02:59 pm:

All plywood and paint sticks, painted with acrylic enamel. A full sized replica is a lot of work. The Florida-made CDO replicas are 1/2 to 3/4 size. Mine are all full sized.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond-Forest, Va on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 03:12 pm:

My CDO, full sized. 13hp gas engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 03:18 pm:

I'm sure someone can tell what motor is in this "Franklin copy" through the grillwork.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 04:05 pm:

OHV Briggs & Stratton


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Anderson on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 04:22 pm:

Looks like a Honda Predator knock-off purchased at HF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 04:29 pm:

http://www.horselesscarriagereplicas.com/files/2017_FALL_Newsletter_October_18.p df


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 10:58 pm:

Briggs and Franklin? Looks like the B&S motor on my snow thrower...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 06:34 am:

I think I will start my horseless carriage build by taking an opposed twin Briggs engine and seeing how "old" I can make it look. I think unshrouding it and reshaping and adding and/or removing cooling fins would disguise it a lot. I might add a belt driven fan or two, if needed. The existing flywheel could then be covered to disguise it. A fake or non-functioning magneto, with the plug wire routed through it would help with the deception.Things like drip oilers, even if dummies, could be added to make it look 100 years older than it is. I love the looks of the glass ball oilers Mr Ford used on the Quadricycle. I wonder if anybody reproduces them? If not I can fake them with the right size Christmas tree ornaments! Intake and exhaust systems could be changed to something more "period correct". The last time I bought JB Weld I bought the large tubes. Maybe it's a good thing I did. Some nuts "glued" in place could make the cylinders appear to be detachable from the block.
How do you suppose I can make aluminum parts, like an engine block, look like cast iron? I need to change the texture, in appearance anyway. This project is going to take some serious thought. Here goes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Kramer on Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 10:31 am:

I have never understood why someone would go to the effort to build a very nice looking replica of a curve dash olds only to have it sound like your lawn mower. Why not get a older type of engine similar to a hit and miss and do some engineering to make it work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 10:32 am:

https://www.hcca.org/classifieds.php?cars


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 12:03 pm:

I've met the owner of the Olds for sale, I was wearing my MTFCA t-shirt at church a couple of years ago and a man came up to me and asked me if owned a model t. He owns the Olds and several other brass era cars if I remember correctly. He came over and gave Carl (1911 touring) a quick check for me before I started driving it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Tuesday, January 09, 2018 - 08:52 am:

We have a hydraulic power unit for underwatr drilling here and the engine used is about a 14 hp single cylinder tecumpsa.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Tuesday, January 09, 2018 - 09:10 am:

What I wouldn't GIVE to have a curved dash Olds!
Of course right now what I wouldn't give to GET OVER this $#@! flu!! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, January 09, 2018 - 09:27 am:

Some folks with plenty of money to pay for them then screw them up buy the FH Briggs engine from about 1930 and make a "hit and miss" engine out of it with dual flywheels.
You can convert most Briggs to hit and miss,I am sure there is articals online how to do it but it would require some machine work to open the exhaust valve with a governor mechanism.
saw it done to old low value horizontal shaft engines for conversation pieces.
Being I do lawnmower repair I have helped a couple folks out over the years with transmissions to use in these buggy's. Most prefer the Hydro-static drive because they can operate it with a lever and start off smooth and slow without jurking the passengers neck loose.
I would build 1 but I can't keep enough health and steam to finish real cars! :-)
Another idea i guess would be use a golf cart drive system to a dual chain drive straight axle with Curtis controller and such.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Doris, AZ on Tuesday, January 09, 2018 - 11:54 am:

Tommy, McMaster Carr supplies a number of visible oilers.


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