OT is this a Ford?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: OT is this a Ford?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin Bicknell on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 04:20 am:

Came across this photo of a local car and wondered if it is an early Ford?Early Ford?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Woolf on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 07:11 am:

It is not a Ford, but the hood / radiator shape look similar to a Queen.

Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 08:30 am:

Looks like one of those fake hoods with the engine under the seat...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 08:34 am:

It does look like a chain drive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 08:33 pm:

Justin,

Please confirm the photo was probably taken in New Zealand or other location or that it is unknown.

If you have access to a real photo, if you can scan it at a high resolution such as 600 dots per square inch or higher -- you may be able to make out what is on the side of the vehicle. It might be a logo or even the name of the company.

I've posted the illustration below several times but it helps illustrate the difference a higher resolution scan and posting can make. I used to carry this 3 x 2 1/2 inch photograph of my Dad, Mom, Sister, and my Grandparents in my wallet. It kept getting worse and worse so I pulled it out and put it in a drawer. Below is a low resolution scan that looks ok on the computer screen. You can see the many cracks in the photo from the billfold.



Below is the license tag zoomed in on the low resolution scan:



Below is the license tag zoomed in on a high resolution scan from the same poor quality photograph but much higher scan/resolution.





Notice on the higher resolution photo I can clearly make out the year of the license tag as "50" for 1950 on the Texas tag. The higher resolution scan and/or posting can often, but not always, make a big difference unless the original photo area is out of focus or in the shadows etc.

Good luck with the ID of the car. And if you find out what it is, please let us know.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 08:39 pm:

Note also that the 14 spoke wheels may also help you ID the car. Based on the body style I would say sometime 1902-1904 as the rear entrance body went away early in the 1900s.

Yes, the engine is under the seat. Note also that several aftermarket companies offered kits to convert the earlier 1903 Cadillac, 1903-4 Fords etc. to have a false front and to look more modern. So it may not be an original factory produced hood and front on the car. But then again it might be original.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 08:48 pm:

Both 1903 Ford and Cadillac had that slope to the back section. The hood looks like the Cadillac Model B. Certainly others copied this.
Anyone else?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 09:37 pm:

Maybe a "French Front" Oldsmobile?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Todd Manoff on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 10:46 pm:

Rear entrance tonneau. Detachable. Which means You can remove the rear tonneau section of the body so it can be A 2-seater auto. Engine, 1or 2 cyl., horizontal cylinder. Note crank hole on side. Hood houses the radiator, water tank. Likely 1903-1905. Not a French front olds. Hmmm. What brand could it be?
Todd


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Branigan on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 10:48 pm:

It's not an Oldsmobile "Model T French Front" Will have to keep trying.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 11:44 pm:

The hood and spindly front springs look like Queen. But the pictures of early Queens in the Standard Catalog show no brake drums at the rear wheels, and the car in the picture clearly has such drums. As the king said in "The King and I": "Is a puzzlement!"

People grouse that modern cars all look alike. It would appear that, 115 years ago, all rear entrance cars looked alike, too!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace, Woodstock,Ont. Canada on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 02:40 pm:

Its not a Queen. Ask me how I know, or check my profile pic :-) but a good guess none the less!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace, Woodstock,Ont. Canada on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 02:44 pm:

Shift lever on outside of body rules out Queenie. Note its lowest point is near frame and not half way up the body, above the transmission where they are on all 1&2 cyl Queens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 05:04 pm:

It's a 1905 Queen with a factory detachable Tonneau. The hole in the side of the body is for the crank handle which has a spiral cut with a locating pin in the center. When the engine starts the crank is pushed off of the end of the transmission shaft. That's the original hood because you can plainly see that the louvers in the hood drop down from the top as they proceed to the rear. The poor dot pattern hides that fact but I will post a better picture of another Queen with that feature but that one does not have the removable rear entrance tonneau and is a Tulip body of a later year.

One day when I started up our 1906 Moline which is similar to the Queen except for the front transverse spring, the crank did not expel and went around like a propeller. I was afraid that it would fly a long way if it came off buy was afraid to reach around the crank to shut it off.
I ran around the back of the car to the left side and shut of the switch.

Our Moline originally had a removable tonneau but when we built the new wood body we left it as one piece because they always crack at the joints. I still have the brass attachment fittings from the original rear of the body.




1905 Queen


1906 Moline

1906


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 05:31 pm:

A 1906 Queen, notice how it changed in one year. On second thought that drop in the louvers may be a shadow. The radiators on those two cylinder cars were hooked up with soldered one half inch copper tubing and there was no fan, just the thermo-siphon system and they got hot at idle. I put an electric fan on mine so we could drive it in parades. Shame on me and I am going to hell for that non-original accessory. Notice that with a Cape top with latching arms (Landau arms to you) you don't need hold-down belts or brass rods in front



1906 Queen


That's Mary and I cruising on a Gas Light Tour an going about 42 miles an hour witch was as fast as it would go. And yes, that's a 12 volt battery in the solid oak running board box. If we had made the tonneau removable it would have parted at the horizontal line under the doors at the back and the doors would have come off with the back seat as they are attached to the removable rear section. We dressed in period costumes and I had a beard.

1906 Moline


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin Bicknell on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 06:15 pm:

Great response guys, thank you. The photo was taken in 1910, in Palmerston North, New Zealand. The family are the Hopwoods. Arthur Hopwood had the largest hardware store in town which he established in 1905. The company is still in business today. I will do some further research and see what I can find out about the 'Queen' here in NZ.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace, Woodstock,Ont. Canada on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 09:15 pm:

As mentioned above, 2 cylinder Queen automobiles never had brake drums on the rear wheels. The transmission lever in Justin's photo is not in the correct spot to be a Blomstrom motor product. I've done more research than anyone else currently on this side of the grass, about all Queen automobiles and I can assure you it is not a Queen. The hood is convincing, yes, I do agree there, and the body and spring suspension is quite similar. Queen cars could be had with the optional French hood, and my model B Queen is one of those examples. Blomstrom had a 1 cyl. engine, two different 2 cyl. engines, 12 & 16 HP. They all share the same Weston-Mott transmissions. The large four cylinder K's (and model D's, of which no known complete example exists) had their own engine design. There are 11 Queen cars still surviving today. The B&W photo above,(and color below), mine, and 1 other, are the only 3 model B's surviving. Here is the same photo in color from Frank's post:

Here is the SAME car, taken years later, and re-restored. Note difference in transmission lever in this photo and Justin's original photo. Even this car is not identical to mine, but the differences are very minor

My car:

As a side note, the queen chassis is similar to Frank's Moline. All Queen cars had water pumps too :-)

Here's a photo of Queen cars with their non-hood fronts taken at the New York Auto show, December, 1904:


Lastly, here's a photo of where my crank's output shaft is:


Respectfully submitted with no disrespect to anyone, especially Frank :-) By the way, nice Moline!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace, Woodstock,Ont. Canada on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 09:16 pm:

My pictures didn't load the way I wanted them to. My car is at the bottom :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace, Woodstock,Ont. Canada on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 09:32 pm:

This is a page from a 25 page sales booklet I found years ago. Even the illustrations weren't 100% :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace, Woodstock,Ont. Canada on Saturday, January 13, 2018 - 01:10 pm:

The only other known model B. Note how different all three model B's are in the hood area in my previous photos. These cars were only made for about 1 whole year.


Two of the model E's and a model F have identical hood fronts as my car:



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