Why do People Install an External Oil Versus Inside Lines?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Why do People Install an External Oil Versus Inside Lines?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Sommers on Saturday, January 20, 2018 - 05:57 pm:

I have always heard that oil to the front of the engine should be supplemented. Accordingly, I installed an external line, but have been underwhelmed with the amount of oil it sends down the tube. I do not want to modify my hogshead, so I was looking for other alternatives.

I saw internal lines at Langs, and a video by Mike Bender that showed how the internal lines are installed.

Oil Lines

It seems to me that internal lines would be a much better alternative to using an oil line from the magneto post. What am I missing? The cost is similar to an external line. They can be installed with the engine in the car. It seems intuitive that internal lines would deliver much more oil to the front of the block. Guidance please...
Regards,
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zachary Carrico on Saturday, January 20, 2018 - 08:37 pm:

I think that more knowledgeable people than I would tell you that different external lines have different flows based upon the pickup design at the hogshead and would be able to site several designs. My external line is at least ~50 years old, and flows the oil into the oil filler so it is easy to see how much oil is flowing. It always seems to be a fair amount, but I have never jacked the front end to see how it changes going up hill.
The big issue with internal lines is that the funnels tend to pickup band lint and clog the line. How does one know if an internal oil line is still flowing or it is clogged without doing a bunch of work to check.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 09:46 am:

I'm only a year into my "T" odyssey, but I installed my external line because it will allow me to observe at a glance if oil is flowing through the line.

It also has a high flow rate, so that was also a selling point.

I've lost track of how many old cars I've messed with over the years....probably hundreds (mine and other people's), and one thing I've learned to be critical is proper and adequate lubrication. I just don't put up with questionable oiling.

If just about anything else fails, you get an engine that won't run, or won't run right. If lubrication fails, you get a destroyed engine.

So...in spite of the fact that I'm going out of my way to keep my T looking weathered, there is a new-looking external oiling tube running down the side of the engine. It's already starting to dull a bit however, and is looking more and more at home there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 10:07 am:

I used to use two external oilers all the time; I no longer do. I use the same internal pair you do. It gives a total of three oilers, and I don't have to see them to know they're working. They are the most expensive option but look the best.

Mag posts are a cheap option but the routing, especially in the front, can be a pain. Also you can have problems if you use a 90 degree elbow right at the oiler.

Ford Faithful's are great, much better than a mag post. I had no issues except on an early car with an embossed trans cover I wanted to use the original cover, and you can't use it with the cheap brake light switch bracket.

I am not willing to mount the special hardware used on the high flow one in my aluminum hogs head or the side of a narrow nose pan. Those are fine on a late teens and forward.

There are no issues with band lining if you have good faces and edges on your drums. If you have a transmission screen with a magnet it catches any loose crap as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 12:07 pm:

Haven't use those little funnel type inside oil catchers and keepers. Won't consider them. Can't see any incline to these oil lines.

The factory is high up and lets oil run to the front with gravity help. The mag outside or hogshead mounted are high up too, letting physics do the waterfall like flowing.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 01:16 pm:

I use both, internal & external.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 03:36 pm:

I put an external oil line in. I have no clue what is inside the engine. I figured I would play it safe, and it would do no harm, adding it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard E Moore Jr. Pickwick lake Tenn. on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 04:09 pm:

The new internal line is as good as it gets in my opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 04:29 pm:

External lines will flow more oil if located properly and have less chance of stopping up. If you use the big lines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Hoffer on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 07:04 pm:

I have been wrestling with this. Today I pulled off the timing cover to verify the factory oil line was clear. I was thinking about adding the internal lines, but I think the criticism of the auxiliary internal oil lines not flowing when climbing a hill is valid. My car arrived with a Sure Feed external line. After much soul searching, I have decided to keep the Sure Feed to provide extra oil on hills, plus put in the driver side internal line for extra oil on flat ground. So I will have 3 lines that work on level ground and 2 lines that will work on the hills. I am machining a banjo connection to the front of the inspection pan for the Sure Feed because the stock setup looks poor to me. Am I right? We will see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 07:44 pm:

Both Sure-Feed & Ford-Faithful are excellent accessory oilers ! The original footplate is adequate - just likes to leak a bit !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 10:50 pm:

You've got to be up a heck of a grade for the extra internal lines not to work..... as long as the funnel is above the outlet oil is flowing; it doesn't need a slope in the pipe, just for the funnel to be above the outlet. The point where the outlet is higher than the funnel is the point it stops working; that's pretty steep! I've got a pair I'm about to install, I'll try to remember to measure the angle later this week.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 11:00 pm:

Most streets where I live are steep enough that those internal oil lines would cease to flow. And wouldn't flow up a lesser grade until they'd filled with oil, Not sure how long that'd take, Seconds probably.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - 05:51 pm:

Fred Houston researched the grade that oil lines would quit flowing oil back in 2005. A link is provided along with his findings.

4) THE FOUR TUBE “PERIOD CORRECT” OILING SYSTEM. The four tubes or oil lines are the original internal oil line, the common accessory oil line from the magneto plug to a pan bolt at the front of the engine, and the two accessory oil lines may be installed on either side of the oil pan dipper plate. These two internal oil lines will flow up to a 17% grade, while the standard oil line will flow until a 20 % grade is reached, while the outside accessory oil line will continue to flow up to a 44% grade. An additional quart of oil would be advisable when making a really long pull such as Pikes Peak. Oil line Ratios: Standard internal oil line, 19 5/8” length with a 4” rise (20%). Magneto plug oil line 19 5/8” length with an 8 5/8“rise (44%). Pan plate oil lines 16 ¾” length with a 2 7/8” rise (17%).
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/23868.html?1169432421


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Sommers on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - 10:40 pm:

Everyone... Thanks for your guidance. I think I will make sure of the patency of the original internal line, and then go the belt and suspenders route, by installing the two additional internal lines.
Regards,
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter B. Ratledge on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 07:57 am:

Michael, I have been using the internal oil lines from Lang's in my 11 for over 20 years with no problems. I show and drive the car. The judges do not like the outside oil lines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob on Upper Texas Gulf Coast on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 08:22 am:

Anyone have the link to Mike Bender video?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Sommers on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 09:20 am:

Bob,
This points you to the Model T Tips Web site. It consists of a number of videos that can be accesses either thru the web site or searched via U-Tube. The video where he talks about oil lines is a part of the oil pan installation video.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz9Cs_Ied_FCHd6e-WMvuRQ

Regards,
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 09:30 am:

External oil lines got their introduction many years ago because of necessity where the oil funnel got plugged with debris from the coils. A tired engine with excessive crankshaft end play could cause the magnets to scrub the coils, thus causing coil debris in the oil and eventually entering the oil tube delivery funnel and blocking it. More oil was not needed, just assurance that was being delivered. There were also accessory brass spacers that could be installed behind the front pulley to counter excessive end play. Excessive end play would manifest it self by causing missing and backfiring going up or down hills as the flywheel moved forward and scrubbed the coils and also moved away out of range of the coils. In the day, an external oil line was only a temporary fix. If you needed an external oil line it was because the internal one was plugged, if it was plugged the engine was in need of major repairs. The internal oil line that was designed and used was more than sufficient provided there was no other engine issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Balough on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 10:00 am:

I'm not sure what year they did this, but here are the results of going from the small cup to the big cup on the internal oil line to the front of the engine. This came out of the closet of Joe Galamb.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 10:09 am:

I respectfully suggest band debris is a much more significant contribution to blocking flow in the internal oil line than 'magneto debris'. Even the very early Ford service bulletins alert mechanics of the need to clean internal oil lines of band lint whenever an engine is opened up. If magnets are 'scrubbing' the stator, you are looking at a bigger impending catastrophe than diminished oil flow to the front end. jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 12:43 pm:

AS long as the engine is running there should be pressure pushing the oil thru the line. The added inside line is not new, they have been around for some time, just not in wide usage. I think originally they were only made and mounted on the drivers side. The oil being slung around inside of the housing is under force. With being said, I can see the drivers side extra inside tube being useful, not so much the passenger side, the intake is facing the wrong way to catch the oil as it is slung and would have to rely on oil dripping down from the inside, not under pressure.


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