Do you need the whole exhaust set up for an engine test?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Do you need the whole exhaust set up for an engine test?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 11:30 am:

Going to try to start my engine on the chassis tomorrow.

Wondering if I need to install any of the exhaust system and attach it to the manifold? Will it run just fine without it all and just an exhaust manifold? I think I read on a post that you don't really need anything if you don't care about how loud it is (I don't).... but cannot find it again.

It's a brand new exhaust manifold and stupidly I forgot to order a nut for it. I'd rather not wait until next weekend to start it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 12:06 pm:

Hi John,

Short answer: yes. You can run the engine with only the exhaust manifold. The only resulting damage will be to your hearing. DO WEAR some type of hearing protectors. These engines are louder than you might think. (Don't ask me how I know, I may not hear your question anyway.)

AND, Do Not get your hand in the way of the hot exhaust gases exiting from the manifold.

Be Careful.

Good luck with your test, Bill.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 12:16 pm:

I will SECOND what Bill said....

All too soon some of us "oldsters" realize the damage done to hearing in our younger days. Loud noise hearing damage is oftentimes PERMANENT!!

(Too soon old, too late smart - me)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 12:16 pm:

I've always thought that running an engine straight out of the manifold, risked causing burnt valves. I don't remember which old timer told me that when I was younger and I don't know if it is true.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C-west central, MN on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 12:17 pm:

Bill, you hit the nail right on. Very loud.

T

Here's the start of mine when I put the improved exhaust on... ;-)
Oh, he cackled!

I'm itching to hear how it runs for you John!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 12:31 pm:

^ Looks like it's got a WICO mag driven right off the cam shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 01:29 pm:

Hi Terry,

I won't dispute your claim about burned valves although I have not heard of that. (perhaps I live a sheltered life......) Many aircraft engines run short stacks or just an exhaust manifold and do not suffer from burned valves; perhaps they have better valves (stellite?).

I suspect that John will not be running his engine for a lengthy period of time and just wants to confirm the viability of his engine.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Compton on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 02:30 pm:

It's not burnt valves, but warped valves from shutting down a hot motor and allowing them ( the open ones ) to cool quickly due to the valve being off it's seat combined with the absence of the exhaust manifold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 02:38 pm:

Alright thank you guys! Exactly what I needed.

Bill, you are correct. Just a short 10-30 minute test to get all the gunk burned off and hopefully raise the compression (it was low).

It has the newer one piece valves. Not sure how old they are however.

I will start a Johns Engine Awakening thread soon! Hopefully can try to start tomorrow, all I need to do is fill up the radiator and connect a fuel line and temp tank somehow. And battery of course :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C-west central, MN on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 03:06 pm:

Hehehe! I found a Honda Civic distributor and ran it backwards! :-)
John, steal the gas tank off the lawn mower. I still use it on the 24. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 03:41 pm:

You might not be able to hear knocks or other unusual sounds due to the loud exhaust. It can be started, but very loud. I agree with everything Bill Harper posted above. Concerning the warping of the valves. Especially in very cold weather, cold air going into the manifold could warp open valves. I would recommend right after you shut it down you put a rag in the open end of the manifold a clean one not oil or gas soaked. And stick around for a little while with fire extinguisher ready in case the rag catches fire.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 03:42 pm:

Got it Norm, thank you. I will try and see if I can somehow attach the old exhaust without the nut. Any ideas? Just a clamp since it's a temporary run and not going to be driven?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brendan Doughty Central wisconsin on Saturday, January 27, 2018 - 05:34 pm:

No. You do not need the exhaust system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, January 29, 2018 - 02:26 am:

John A. - Suggestion,....use something like two or three short lengths of baling wire and run them under a radiator hose clamp located and tightened just under but adjacent to the flange on the exhaust pipe. Then wire the exhaust pipe to the manifold for a very crude and temporary attachment just for test purposes. It will leak badly for sure, but I'll bet it will eliminate at least two-thirds of the exhaust noise. FWIW,....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, January 29, 2018 - 02:56 am:

The two fords that were in the New York to Seattle race did not have exhaust manifolds.
They just had a two inch long pipe on each exhaust port.
A local guy here has a copy of one of those speedsters and he has been running without the exhaust manifold about 18 years. Even drives it on the freeway.
The noise is not as bad as youíd think.
With the engine on the engine stand not powering anything it ainít gonna get the valves that hot.
Iíve seen too many lawn mowers and tractors work really hard with no mufflers and exhaust pipes for years and never warp a valve.
The guys that worry about that are the same ones that make sure they never set a battery on concrete and wonít pick up a telephone unless it is between rings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, January 29, 2018 - 03:01 am:

The two fords that were in the New York to Seattle race did not have exhaust manifolds.
They just had a two inch long pipe on each exhaust port.
A local guy here has a copy of one of those speedsters and he has been running without the exhaust manifold about 18 years. Even drives it on the freeway.
The noise is not as bad as youíd think.
With the engine on the engine stand not powering anything it ainít gonna get the valves that hot.
Iíve seen too many lawn mowers and tractors work really hard with no mufflers and exhaust pipes for years and never warp a valve.
The guys that worry about that are the same ones that make sure they never set a battery on concrete and wonít pick up a telephone unless it is between rings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, January 29, 2018 - 03:04 am:

Sorry about the double post.

Have you noticed the antique airplanes with model T and model A engines have no exhaust manifolds?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Rosenkrans on Monday, January 29, 2018 - 11:45 am:

When I worked at the National Warplane Museum in Geneseo many years ago there was a fellow who would fly his B-25 in for shows, or just for a stop over. He had short stacks on both engines, talk about loud! He would take-off over the SUNY campus at full throttle with the engines just unsynched enough to really rattle the windows...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Monday, January 29, 2018 - 10:58 pm:

We ran an old non rebuilt engine last fall, with no exhaust system. It ran fine. Honestly I did not think it was too loud, maybe it just did not meet expectations.

https://youtu.be/vuJgt_URt4k


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 - 06:14 am:

I ended up getting the old exhaust system linked together for now without the nut. So now it will be quieter! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 - 09:38 am:

Norm brought up the important point, you need to be able to hear the mechanical noises when you first start your motor. I think the warping of the valves is an old wives tale.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 - 02:50 pm:

When I ran my T for the first time with just the manifold it was a lot louder than I thought 20hp could ever be, but not loud enough to do any damage. It probably helped that I was running it outdoors and it's an open car. Left a big soot stain on the side of the hogshead though.

Aaron, while Ford-powered airplanes just have short stacks for the exhaust it's good practice to use some kind of hearing protection when flying them. I certainly do whenever I fly one.


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