Question about wishbone

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Question about wishbone
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jay on Thursday, February 08, 2018 - 07:24 pm:

What is the purpose of the springs used at the wishbone ball and socket connection?
The manual states 'assemble cap, springs, run down nuts, wire together'
But in doing so, the springs are compressed to its solid state, thereby eliminating any 'spring action'
Just trying to learn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, February 08, 2018 - 07:34 pm:

If the studs are the correct length and you have the correct length springs, you can tighten the nuts down enough to get the wire through the castellations of the nuts and the holes in the ends of the studs before the springs are fully compressed into their solid state.

Be sure that the studs are fully screwed into their sockets before you install the cap, springs, and nuts, then be sure to use wire per the manual to keep the studs and nuts from backing out. :-)


http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/762688.html?1497125290


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Thursday, February 08, 2018 - 08:02 pm:

The springs are pulled down not for spring action but to keep the ball tight as the ball and socket wear. Lots of times greasing the ball and cap is overlooked. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, February 08, 2018 - 08:42 pm:

I have to "respectively disagree" The springs can not take up wear as the cap face and the ball socket face are completely together when bolted up. There is "little to no wear" at the face contact. The wear is only on the ball and socket. As Mark noted the studs are to be completely inserted into the ball socket casting. Then with the proper length springs, and screwing the nut on just till you can get the wire inserted to hold the studs from backing out. At that point there is supposed to be just a little spring action left. It is to give a little flex in the assembly when hitting hard jolts or bumps. APCO designed their accessory caps with the spring and cup inside the casting to take up wear at the ball and socket. ....respectively submitted


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, February 08, 2018 - 09:41 pm:

When new there was some gap with the springs pulled down. Now after years of wear, the cap touches.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, February 08, 2018 - 10:39 pm:

Norman I can see how that could be. I wish I had a ball bearing the size of a NOS radius rod. . I have a NOS ball socket and a NOS cap to use for a test. Ill have to start looking for the right size ball bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, February 09, 2018 - 12:41 am:

Donnie, I brazed up the ball on my pitman arm and dressed it down to fit. It was surprisingly easy to get a good fit using a good cap as a gauge. I used a 4" handgrinder to rough it out, then followed up with a file and emery cloth. Just keep taking off the high spots. :-) You could do the same on your wishbone. Worked for me. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Friday, February 09, 2018 - 08:04 am:

I support Norman and David.
There should be a gap which will close as wear occurs.
The ball can easily be 'built up' with a MIG welder and then filed to shape.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Friday, February 09, 2018 - 10:19 am:

Agree with Chris, not a particularly tough job to build up with MIG then shape to fit. Before and after photos...






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Anderson on Friday, February 09, 2018 - 11:28 am:

I think the ball joint on a 1950's gm product is the same size.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, February 09, 2018 - 07:16 pm:

Donnie -- I bought a few 1-1/4" balls on ebay a few years ago. I have a professional welder weld them on old wishbones for me, since I don't trust my welding for such a critical point. I'm sure you could handle it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Friday, February 09, 2018 - 07:35 pm:

Mike, I will probably buy me a few of them. My stash of good wishbones is getting very small. Im mostly wanting to use a new ball in my NOS parts and see how they fit. Not that I don,t believe that the cap should have a gap. But..... I was born in Missouri. So Im from the "show me state" So that's why I need to see it or "be shown" how it fits .... :-) :-) have fun and be safe .......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Saturday, February 10, 2018 - 12:26 am:

Don't forget pan has wear to
I always add shim or two.
Apco spring loads ball cap decent accessory


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, February 10, 2018 - 07:43 am:

Mike W., what kind of balls are those and just how is your welder going to do this? I am curious. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, February 10, 2018 - 08:03 am:

I agree with both Chris B's :-). Although I just brazed up the ball on my pitman arm because I didn't have a Mig handy, useing a Mig would be very good too. I'm sure I'm "preaching to the choir" to Donnie, as I know he has done much more than I have. What Chris Bamford has done is outstanding. IMHO, that would be much better than trying to replace the ball. Beautiful job Chris, much better than my pitman arm!! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, February 10, 2018 - 08:20 am:

David -- The balls I found on ebay are stainless steel. (I didn't need stainless, but it's all I could find at the time.) I cut the old worn ball off the wishbone and ground down the stub leaving a "cone" of original material, so that area is filled with weld when it's all done. It took my welder friend about 5 minutes. Much less work than building up the ball with weld and grinding/filing it down, even though that too is a good way to do it. Chris B. did a great job on his.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mosher on Saturday, February 10, 2018 - 08:38 am:

https://youtu.be/LeSEHjvAF6s

This is a video from a gentleman on the ford barn for Model As Jack Bahum. Itís a great video of the wish bone in action. I imagine that on a T it would be the same.
I hope Jack doesnít mind me copying it.
I was surprised on how much it moves around when we drive our cars.


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