1909. Front body bracket is “2 bolt style”
Don L, I saw that when I first looked at the picture a short while ago. But wasn't sure if I should comment on it. I think the running board is the 1910 style, but am not sure. I wondered if the car was a "true" tourabout as supplied from the Ford factory, or maybe a standard mother-in-law roadster with the single seat changed to the double. As I understand it, the "true" tourabout was manufactured for slightly more than a year, late 1910 and 1911. My understanding also is that most "true" tourabouts left the factory in Ford touring green (very dark "Brewster" type green, which in itself is confusing, because "Brewster" green was actually many different colors of green ranging from a medium to very dark). Some tourabouts may have been 1911 touring blue. I have been fortunate over the years to have closely looked over two unrestored original tourabouts. Both with original green color. Difficult to tell given the limitations of the various black & white forms of photography, this car appears to be a light color, likely the light gray used on roadsters in 1909.
I am also looking at the edges of the upholstery on both seats. They don't match. While it ain't necessarily so, I would expect the upholsterers to do a better job matching that (as much out of work habits as anything else) on a car that left the factory as a tourabout.
I have also read speculations that the two-bolt bracket at the front of the body lasted longer on roadsters than it did with the touring cars. Regardless, I suspect that by the time the tourabouts were being officially manufactured, the three-bolt bracket should have been used on roadsters as well.
My guess, for whatever that is worth, this is a later '09 or very early '10 roadster with the rear seat replaced as a "tourabout upgrade". I wonder if it is a Ford factory replacement seat or after-market supplied by any of (literally) hundreds of carriage builders around the country?
The car also has the small wheel hubs, and appears to have the pinned straight rear axle.
Wonderful stuff! Thank you Herb.
Must be the rich family at the family reunion/picnic. Looks like several surreys in the background and people lounging about. Love the mud chains.
Looks like the photo has Lincoln Fair 1911 written across the bottom.
My Oct 4,1909 Touring has the two bolt front body mounting.
I was thinking the same thing. Low radiator neck, small hubs, Pearl Gray, no top. Runabout with an added seat.
I read Lewiston Fair.
Great photo Herb. Other interesting 09 feature here are the horn and the side lamps. Horn appears to have the scalloped bell like very early 09, and side lamps appear to be the same as these seen on #7728 located at the Piquette Museum. That Touring is part of the newly arrived Porter collection and it has a matching tail lamp, all by mfr. unknown. There are no visible markings on these lamps, where the side lamps also have no red dot lens at the rear. Anybody care to speculate as to who these are made by? I questions whether these could be the very rare M&E lamps that were only used between approximate #6900 and #9000, according to Bruce's Black Book Build Sheet records.
I have a 1909 Tourabout (shipping invoice says Roadster) at the shop now. What is interesting about the car is that the buggy rail on the back seat is full width like a touring but the front seat has a partial buggy rail that does not go full width. ( 2 pcs ). The front body mounts are 2 bolt. Tomorrow I will post photos.
The features of that lamp look very much like those made by the Indiana Lamp Co.
I have now located these lamps on this photo and 2 existing 1909 T's, where all 3 appear to have original provenance. One of these is an 09 Roadster, where it's side lamps are identical except that they include the red dot lens. Bruce's book does not mention Indiana Lamp Co., but then again, the Build sheets don't say anything about Gray and Davis lamps either. If not mistaken, the photos of what is believed to be T No.1 show this Touring sporting the same G/D side lamps as those used on the Model K.
While I'm not sure whether or not the side lamps shown on #1 are G&D, I am pretty certain they are not the same model G&D used on the Model K. Comparatively, the G&D used on the Model K is huge, but also the triple-tier chimney and the font are a different configuration. They're not the same animal.
You seem to have nailed it. The distinctive chimney air intake, font latch and door slide latch are all on the Indiana Lamp Company side lights. I looked at the Indiana Lamp Company history and it did say the lamps were marketed through "jobbers and distributors". They also were the lamps supplied with the Lexington automobile made in Connersville, Indiana, where Indiana Lamp was located
The "M&E" lamp may have been a reference to the supplier, not necessarily the (lamp) company itself. Ford used a number of them like Detroit Motor Car Supply Company which was part of the Wadsworth Company and Pontiac, etc. It seems like Ford was struggling with getting enough lamps for their production even in 1908/09 with E&J, Castle and Brown who must not have been able to keep up with the high demand and low cost Ford Company.
Jack posted a photo of one some time back,
I noticed the two tier lamp with a square front glass when the photo was first posted. Wasn't an E&J but now we have a good idea maybe.
Ken in Texas
Ken, Walter, and Jerry...Excellent research....thanks for this detailed follow-up. I stand corrected where I compared the lamps on T No.1 to the Model K....clearly not similar, however, I do believe No.1's lamps look to be G/D. How odd that these handsome Indiana lamps do not display the mfr's name....these look like a comparably premium lamp. Related by unrelated, I also understand that BFA Ford documentation identifies 7 different early T horn suppliers, where much current discussion refers to only Rubes and Nonperiel.
Although Indiana Lamp did brand and customer logo some of them, it shouldn't be a surprise to find some unbranded as Scott mentions above.
I ran into a pair today on Tbay for IHC and it appears they are like the one Scott posted above. The "Indiana Lamp Company Connersville IND", a little hard to read but most certainly the same manufacturer.
The brand stamping appears very light and could be difficult to see on an often polished lamp.
These have the red jewel,
Ken in Texas
Similar to the car I posted photos of 2 years ago.