Advice please, engine questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Advice please, engine questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 07:35 pm:

My engine was making the growling sound indicative of a loose main bearing. So I took my engine apart expecting to find the need for a pour and bore. It looks like it was just overhauled when I bought it about 8,000 miles ago. The bores are nicely polished with the right piston clearance, no scuffing. The pistons are .040 over. There is some wear on the pistons and rings but the original machining marks are visible on both. All the rod bearings were tight. The main bearings look good except the front main shows evidence of smearing in the cap. I have not measured the main clearances with plastigage yet but will. There are shims everywhere and it doesn't look like any have been peeled off. The main bearings in the block are good and in line as evidenced by layout die.

So I am planning on using the timersaver for soft metals to re seat the mains and maybe the rods. The journals all measure 1.2270 to 1.2275 so they are about 0.020 under. They are all really good with no taper or out of round and no scoring.

The valves are the modern kind with the two keys to lock the spring keeper. They seem loose, no pop when I pull them out with my finger over the hole, so I might get oversize valves and ream the guides. The stems measure 0.341. The seal area of the valves are not cupped and the seats are all OK but I would at lease lap them. There was oily carbon build up but it seems to be coming from the valves, not rings.

I was thinking of getting a Stripe 280 cam but measured the lift of the cam I have and it is 0.284. Does this mean it is a Stripe 280?

The engine has a fiber cam gear so I want to replace this with an aluminum one. I had a fiber gear fail on a Model A once.

The inside oil line was not clogged and there was very little lint in the aftermarket trap in the hogs head, although the magnet had caught a lot of iron/steel. I haven't taken the transmission apart yet but the drums show wear and this might be were the iron is coming from. The drums are not cracked. I have cotton bands that are all in good shape but I was thinking of going to Kevlar. I am worried that the Kevlar would not be kind to the drums. I am planning on installing an outside oil line with oil filter. I am kind to my bands and don't let them slip, either full off or full on, and it shows. The brake band has no wear as I have disk brakes with the band as a backup only.

Any advice on all of this would be greatly appreciated.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 08:22 pm:

Should I use a nylon cam gear? Should I use the 7.5 degree advanced gear?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 08:31 pm:

Stipe cams are stamped on the back end with the lift. 250, 280, etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 09:01 pm:

Thanks, Jack.

For the cam gear should I use the bronze? $$$


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 09:57 pm:

My limited experience includes a failed fiber gear, so I'd say anything but that. But I once spent a week broken down in Trinidad CO due to a failed nylon gear in a Chebby, so I'm not a fan of that either. My first choice would be the McEachern bronze gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 10:10 pm:

Loose main bearings don't growl, they knock under heavy load. I think you may be chasing the wrong problem. A grinding noise is more likely the rear axle or the transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Royster on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 10:16 pm:

I'd go with Steve on the cam gear advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 11:10 pm:

There would be no pop when you pull the valves out and that size is about as large you can go ordering from the parts supplier catalogs. If you want to go with different valves you are going to spend some time looking for the right size head and length or will need to install new guides. If the engine has been run there is no need to use time saver, everything is seated in now. Google mtfca; aluminum foil, works better then plastigage. Plastigage does not work all the well with pored babbitt, it embeds more then it spreads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 06:45 am:

Ted,

I used the wrong term. I had a deep knock under load. There is evidence that the front bearing is loose. I can take some shims out but want to re fit it.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carey on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 08:56 am:

I would check out the cam as some have the 7.5 advance built in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrett on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 09:03 am:

I was told by an old time Model T-er that each tooth of the cam gear is 7 1/2 degrees apart, so installing it ahead by 1 tooth would have the same effect. I haven't corroborated his information, but someone might want to chime in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 09:23 am:

48 teeth on the cam gear 1 tooth would be 7.5 deg.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 09:24 am:

I've thought about that Mike and the teeth obviously measure some degrees apart. Would it have the same effect? Can't see why not. I'm thinking the only difference with a gear that has the built in advance is that the timing mark on the gear will line up with the crank gear and have the advance built in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 09:26 am:

The 7-1/2 degrees of advance is measured at the crankshaft, so 1/2 tooth of cam gear advance = the 7-1/2 degrees. That's why it's necessary to re-drill the cam gear, not just advance it one tooth (which would be 15 degrees of advance measured at the crankshaft).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Hoffer on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 10:30 am:

Neil, for what it is worth, here is a photo of the bronze gear I put in my motor. It had a "Cylent" fiber gear which looked good but I broke it trying to get it out. So I drilled and tapped a couple of holes in the bronze gear to enable me to pull it from the front. If you do this, you may want to space the holes apart enough to clear the front of the cam where the gear seats. I'm glad I did this, because I have had the gear on and off several times due to fitting problems with the cam drive pins. I'm not saying this is how do do it, but it is how I did it... Cheers, Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 01:52 pm:

I dropped off my block for work at KMW in Carson City Nevada, and during my visit Ed showed me a customer's engine that came in for repair. The owner had installed a modern alternator in place of the generator, then noticed a "funny noise" while out for a drive. Long story short, the alternator gear wobbled on the shaft (poor design) and destroyed the aluminum cam gear........and brother, I mean destroyed! All the teeth were ground into slivery powder, although they still had enough bite to keep the engine running. The entire engine will have to be taken apart, just to make sure all that junk is removed.

I've run a fiber gear in the past with no problems, but nowadays I'll either use the original Ford steel or one of the new bronze gears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 02:00 pm:

I am going with the bronze gear.

What about the ball bearing 4th main?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 02:02 pm:

Ball bearing 4th main ???? Pretty much like a bung hole - everyone one has one along with an opinion about it !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 06:36 pm:

Ben Serar sells a Sherman head with 8:1 compression and fins on the top for $700. He says it is a quality head and high performance. Langs sells a Sherman "style" head with 8:1 compression, without the fins, for $400. Ben says the head that Langs sells is really a medium compression head.

Comments?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Hughes, Raymond, NE on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 07:11 pm:

Neil: I don't know anything about Ben Serar's head, but I believe the head from Langs you are referring to is the Prus head. I understand that is an excellent head with a well designed Sherman style combustion chamber. It is advertised as an 8:1 compression head, but it has measured out at about 5 or 5.5:1.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 09:45 pm:

There are at least two ball bearing fourth mains available. Both of them require cutting the ball on the drive shaft tube. I decided to stick with the stock ball cap. Even if I drive a lot, it will long outlast me.


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