Need A Low Head

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Need A Low Head
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Van Cott on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 01:13 pm:

Hello everyone, I am at the end of a five year restoration of my 1914 touring and need a low head for the car. This car is original in every aspect as it was in dry storage since 1947 and it was purchased from the original owner. It has original paint and upholstery from the factory, original brass components "without dents" etc, matching numbers and no body rot etc. In addition the entire history, sales documents and bank draft for original purchase, etc. Anyway, I found a problem with the head leaking through the head bolt holes, "rust through". I had a low head offered for sale by a member of our Forum however after many phone calls and promises that never materialized the deal is most likely is off. Since this process has stalled the final restoration of the car and the first start since 1947 by a couple of months I am back to asking if anyone has a low head that is in excellent condition for sale. Thanks for spending your time reading this post. John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William bender on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 01:45 pm:

I sent you a PM thanks again Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 03:15 pm:

Me too.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William bender on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 06:00 pm:

Hello Neil sent you a PM


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 06:41 pm:

John-
If it is the original head for the car (with month and day cast into it) and matches the other numbers, you could have the head bolt hole drilled out and a sleeve put into it.

I need to do that with my 1911 head...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 08:06 pm:

Yes, if it is a simple "rust through" in the bolt hole itself? It is an easy fix. In fact, most people ignore them, and maybe use a little gasket sealer or silicone just to control the leak. Many Ts have one or more bolt holes that weep for many years, and no serious problems from it.
Better yet, find a piece of thin-wall tubing just big enough for the head bolts to slip through easily. Drill the errant bolt hole just barely big enough for the thin-wall tubing. J B Weld can handle the temperature of the head (except for the combustion dome itself). Slather inside the hole, and outside the sleeve, and press the two together. Allow to dry, file smooth top and bottom. Plenty strong and should be well sealed.

Have you confirmed that the leak is in fact in the head's bolt hole itself? Earlier blocks (brass era) have a tendency to leak through the bolt threads and travel up to escape around the bolt's head. Some of the internal castings on the earlier blocks was a bit thin. They tended to crack, or even be drilled through a bottom corner, resulting in leaks up the bolt. This is also part of why one must be more careful with torquing the head bolts on earlier blocks. The block castings were weaker there.

The best way to confirm a leak inside a head-bolt hole is to rig air pressure inside the water jacket (10 psi should be enough), and place the head in a large pan of water.

Just a couple suggestions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Hoffer on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 06:46 am:

Wayne, I will be removing the head on my 11, and your "be careful torquing" comment got my attention big time. Can you please elaborate, and maybe provide some specs? Thanks, Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 04:21 pm:

Earlier blocks (roughly before 1916) have a tendency to have weaker threaded bolt holes in the block. This may be due to the materials in the casting? Or the inner sand molds in the water jacket, its shape, or shifting in the casting process? Or the slightly less precise methods of cutting the threads into the blocks in the earlier years?
Like oils, water pumps, tire pressures, how to tie onto the trailer, etc, etc, etc,------. This gets discussed "occasionally" on this site, and usually gets a "few" differing opinions. The exact method, sequence, and torque in "foot-pounds" that should be used. Generally, later (1918 through '27) blocks are recommended to be torqued between 50 or 55 fp. It is usually recommended that earlier blocks not exceed 45 fp.
In addition to that. I recommend taking the torque up slowly. I usually begin in one day. then let the engine sit overnight (at least) just to allow the gasket to squeeze and set a bit. Then I will begin again to finish. Through the couple days and a sit, I go around and around the sequence from about 30 fp on up at about two to three foot pounds at a time. Also, after the first good engine warm up, check the torque again.

In the "well yeah" department. Before installing the head, clean out and chase all the threads in the block. Be careful to not over-cut the threads as that can weaken the bolt's hold. Also carefully run head-bolts into each hole by hand just too give them a "feel". If they feel loose or sloppy? You may want to consider putting a thread repair (helicoil is one type) into that hole. Personally, I prefer not to put thread repair kits in unless they are needed. Yes, I know the theory is that the enlarged threading is claimed to create a stronger hold and may be better if it was done on all bolt holes? But it also cuts away some of the surrounding material and poses a risk that cannot be undone once cut in. While such repairs should be done if needed without looking back. Adding that risk if unnecessary to me is unwise.
That is my opinion on how to approach this.


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