Removing frozen clutch shaft in aluminum hogs head

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Removing frozen clutch shaft in aluminum hogs head
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 12:57 am:

I've got a very nice early hogs head with a frozen shaft. The shaft is fairly heavy rusted and won't budge. I've been hitting it with Kroil for a week now, so far no success. Before starting with the Kroil I heated the steel shaft dull orange and let it cool. I'm sure others have run into this....

Any ideas for a fix?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 07:27 am:

Gary, it may be a bit extreme, but it will work if you don't want the shaft, which is most likely not in very good condition if it is stuck that hard. Cut the shaft off as close as you can to the casting, inside and out, without hurting it. Then, drill a hole through it using progressively larger bits. Once you have a nice size hole, heat the remains of the shaft inside the hole to a cherry red, using an oxy / acetylene torch with a small welding tip, about an '0' or so, then let it cool slowly. I'll bet it will almost drop out then. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 09:31 am:

Gary-

I have had good luck with rust removing electrolysis.

Maybe put the whole hogshead in a rust removing tank and plug it in. I know that is has to have "direct line" for the electrolysis to work, but just like chicken soup for a cold, it won't hurt.

Please let us know your solution.

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 10:07 am:

I have heard of people using Coca-Cola for this very problem and having excellent results. This is not a joke. But I have not personally tried it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kurt Baltrusch on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 11:25 am:

Heat the aluminum as the hole will enlarge more than the steel Shaft does, and try to work the shaft out. An infrared thermometer is a good asset, and I guess that under 250 degrees F is plenty hot. Many steel bearings in BMW motorcycles are put in this way and will fall out with heat. Don't force it and if this does not work, drill it out!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 02:42 pm:

Gary, just how rusty is the clutch shaft ? A picture may help. Aluminum also corrodes, I've seen steel and aluminum parts so corroded they were "welded" together. Milder cases can respond to heat and rust solvents, but if it's really bad, cutting and drilling may be the only way to save the casting. The bores for the clutch shaft might have to be bushed if the aluminum is eroded.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 05:26 pm:

I've had the best luck with acetone and ATF 50-50 mixture. Keep it moist for a few days and then try. If not, then use one of the above mechanical methods. JMHO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 05:28 pm:

I've had the best luck using 50-50 acetone and ATF. cheap and works better than the commercial break free products. soak it down with the mixture and keep it wet for a couple of days. You might be surprised! If it doesn't work, then you can use one of the mechanical methods. I've used it to pull the drums off a transmission shaft that was half buried in the dirt for 50 years. JMHO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 05:48 pm:

Just a quick caution on heating with a torch. Aluminum melts and it melts fast! Most aluminum castings give no indication of trouble until the whole thing collapses, so I'd avoid high heat solutions if possible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 05:58 pm:

Gary, I like the idea of drilling out the shaft. But I never drill all the way thru. When you get your hole to the size you want you can place a drift pin in the hole and tap out the shaft. a small amount of heat will help also, Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 06:59 pm:

Gary, if cutting the shaft to drill it out, I'd drill a little off centre first. Don't drill all the way through. Then up the size of the drill bit in steps until you almost cut through the sides of the shaft. Then a rift can be used to drive th3 remaining slug from the housing. Any/all the penetrants cqn be used in conjunction with this.


Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C-west central, MN on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 08:32 pm:

I don't know what Coca Cola will do to aluminum but it will eat the jaw off a #4 Peterson Vise Grip if you leave (forget) it a couple weeks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 10:06 pm:

I'll lay you $5 Rich B has it. Steel and aluminum. It's almost one piece now. Went thru this with aluminum heads and steel studs on a flathead V-8. What a bloody horror show. Never again. Gary don't try to force anything as the shaft may not move. If heat doesn't work the cut it off and drill is your best bet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RICHARD GRZEGOROWICZ on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 10:58 pm:

GARY,NOEL,is correct with his remedy. [LEON SPELT BACKWARDS]LEON AND I do a lot of work on steam locomotives at CLARK'S trading post in Lincoln N.H.and that's all we use,its the best.no matter what else is said,you can warm the steel shaft to a heat that's JUST TOO WARM TO HOLD WITH YOUR HAND, THIS will allow the penatrent to seep in where needed,don't be in a hurry,it took some years to get this way,and its going to take time to move things.a brass hammer with some good heft,bumping it every so oftin.will help. no full swings now.im just learning the model t,any way to grab this shaft to twist it back and forth? with out causing damage to it?once you can get it to move a little, keep working it back and forth,trying not to stick it it ether end of its movement ,time is on your side here. 50%trans fluid 50%acetone.in metal container,it will melt plastic.good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RICHARD GRZEGOROWICZ on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 11:20 pm:

CHARLEY, YOU BRING BACK SOME HORROR,TO ME, IM OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER WORKING ON THEM RASKILLS,I woould take a oil can with kero,remove the 21 nuts from one bank oil heck out of the studs the night before, let it set till the next day bring your wrench with you drive the beast till the head goes loose.just snug the nuts back on the loose side and loosen the nuts from the other side and bring it home on four cyl,did not work every time, thats when you pull the plugs on ether end and stuff a wad of rope in, dont use the starter,put her in high gear and have some help in pushing it back and forth.some times second worked better.dont get to far from the shop, remember you lose a lot of water with this stunt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Saturday, February 17, 2018 - 12:11 am:

I'm pretty sure the corrosion and dissimilar metals has them corroded tight. I've got acetone and ATF, I'll give that a try. I don't have enough to submerge it, but I can heat it a bit and put some and see where it goes. I'm expecting to have to drill it, and I don't care about the shaft; I've already bought a new one, and I plan on installing bushings. I've been hitting it with Kroil for days and trying to get it to turn even a little with no luck. I like the idea of cutting and drilling slightly off center, and increasing the size; if I can make a decent large right angle clamp to hold it I can use the drill press.

Sooo.... it sounds like acetone/ATF while I make a clamp, I'll give that a week and see if there is any movement at all, if not I'll start to cut and drill. This is a really nice piece, I'd like to save it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C-west central, MN on Saturday, February 17, 2018 - 12:16 am:

Greg, you and Leon get to play with a Climax engine?
Very cool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RICHARD GRZEGOROWICZ on Saturday, February 17, 2018 - 01:34 pm:

DUEY,yes we do, in fact there is also a lovely Baldwin,a Hiesler, and many steam related toys we are all getting older,but talking with RUS PAGE LAST WEEK HE ASKED IF IM UP TO ONE MORE LOMBARD STEAM UP,IM 80, but those words take fifteen years off,its the next 3 or so weeks after that worry me.that place, is UN describable,LEON HAS re tired as of last year but still comes in oftin,what a man,every sept, we have a annual steam up, im thinking of a set of wheels for the Lombard, it will be warmer and easy on us has been's,that is some beast to steer, in its day the trails were iced that made the drivers job a wee bit doable,ED & MURRY are both gone DAVE is not doing well,there useing a 44 ton diesel,the steam only when they can.I LOVE THAT PLACE.if any one is ever in the LINCOLN NEW HAMPSHIRE area its worth your effort to take this in,CLARK'S TRADING POST.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 11:27 pm:

SUCCESS!!

After 2 weeks of Kroil we were able to get this to move.... one person holding down the hogs head, another with an 18" pipe wrench and a 36" piece of scheduled 40 pipe..... it's out!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, February 19, 2018 - 01:01 pm:

Good to Hear of your success! Thanks for posting your results


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C-west central, MN on Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 01:27 am:

Good to hear Gary! And no pounding on the alum. :-)
Sorry about my drift just above.


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