Transmission Next Steps, or "After The Lost Key Fiasco"

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Transmission Next Steps, or "After The Lost Key Fiasco"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Hoffer on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 03:50 pm:

So I am way deeper into this project than I ever thought I would be. After retrieving the lost key, (see I Bought A Bore Scope thread) I now have the transmission guts exposed. My question to you experts is what should I do before buttoning it all up again?

My thoughts: the bands have a lot of meat left on them. I could go to kevlar now, but I am a rank newbie - never have driven a T - and wonder if kevlar is above my pay grade? I have read all of the arguments, which are a lot, and I recall that kevlar has a specific break-in routine before they are easy to use. Should I continue with what I have, thinking it would be easier and more forgiving for a beginner to drive?

The drums have some light corrosion on them. The former owner kept the car in his private museum and it did not get driven much. I can clean the corrosion off, is there anything else I should do to the drum surfaces?

To what extent should I try to scrub the interior of the transmission? Is it unwise to dislodge a bunch of dirt, or is a clean transmission a happy transmission?

Should I do something extra to try and seal the pedal shafts?

Are there any tips to make reinstalling the hogshead easier or more successful?

I do plan to renew any safety wire I can reach. The existing ones are pretty shaky, I think. I have one of those tools that hold the bands while you put them together. I also measured everything before I disassembled the transmission, so I can put everything back as I found it UNLESS I change the bands!

Thanks in advance, Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks NY on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:13 pm:

I would pull the bands out and clean up the drums. Inspect the band linings for wear and/or deterioration. Now would be the time to reline the bands, but be mindful of the folks who will demand that you use kevlar...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:18 pm:

Looks like at one time your transmission had water in it :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Royster on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:21 pm:

From what I can see your bands look pretty good, but they could be dry rotted or thin on the backsides. I would pull them and examine them while you clean up the drums. If you do go Kevlar it does not matter how much driving experience you have, I had none when I installed mine and they have been great. However they do have requirements to make them function well. All the advice about pumping the brakes etc. Good luck in your rebuild.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:22 pm:

Mr. William, You need to take your transmission all apart, and rebuild it.

There is no way to clean that, and if your bearings are good, they won't be after you run it.

Clutch spring doesn't look right.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:27 pm:

William you get lots of different opinions on the hogshead re-install. But here's my 2 cents on everything, take it for what it's worth (haha not much!)

I really like wood bands. They last a lot longer than cotton, and won't be rough on the drums the way Kevlar can be. So you can still be learning and won't have to change the bands soon and also won't mess anything up like Kevlar can.

A clean transmission is a happy one. Clean out anything and everything you can (I don't think you're gonna find much really) because once you start driving even a moderate amount, whatever is in there will shake loose anyway and come out in the next oil change.

While you have the hogshead off, check the pedals and see how much play you have in the shafts. Not that you want to suddenly get really deep into this project, but now is a good time to get new bushings in there. You can also google o-rings for the pedal shafts to help stop the leakage that can occur there if there is some slop but you don't want to re-bush.

Get an oil screen! Go ahead and order one of the screens that you install in the inspection door. Those are great about catching whatever random bits are moving through the engine, and they come with a magnet that catches any metal shavings and such. You may already have one but I haven't seen it in pictures.

As for re-installing the hogshead. Personally, I think the easiest, most brainless way to re-install is get a new tube of Permatex Ultra Black. Scrape the oil pan and the back of the engine block nice and clean and wipe down the surfaces with acetone. Put a nice thick bead on the oil pan and the engine block, which extra big blobs in the corners where the engine block meets the pan. Then install it just like that. Don't fuss with gaskets or felt or any of that mess. This way is easy and won't leak.

Before you attempt to reinstall, instead of the tool, I like to safety wire the each of the bands nice and tight to their respective drum. Just gives you more wiggle room when installing the hogshead. Other than that, ain't nothin to it but to do it!

Good luck and keep us posted. Also, if you completely ignore everything I suggest, it will not offend me. Haha everyone has their own preferences.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:30 pm:

I won't demand that you use Kevlar, as Tim warns. I will say that I use them and have done so for tens of thousands of miles with zero trouble. You mention a break-in routine. All bands have a break-in period of frequent adjustment before they settle in. With Kevlar, always adjust them as loose as possible, but just enough to get the job done. And, as Mike says, pump the brake to let oil back between the drum & lining, which keeps things cool.

Whatever lining you decide on, I would be leery about using those that have been in there for God knows how long, and have obviously been around some moisture, worrying me about rot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Hoffer on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:43 pm:

Herm, a rebuild is in the future, maybe next year. If I destroy the bearings this year, then definitely next year. Maybe some place in Iowa. That knows how to do rods.

What does not look right about the clutch spring?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:58 pm:

It doesn't look like the ends taper into nothing, it may be after market?

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 06:38 pm:

could the drums just be a bit rusty from condensation? I don't see any on the gears?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 06:58 pm:

The reverse drum has what appears to be a diagonal crack right about the center of the picture. Clean up that area very well. It could just be dirt that appears as a crack, but examine very carefully and if it is cracked, you will need to rebuild the transmission.

If you decide not to rebuild at this time, at least turn over the transmission one complete turn in high gear and clean up everything you can reach by hand. Drain out the oil. Pour some mineral spirits over the parts to wash them off and drain that out of the crankcase. If you just turn over the engine a turn or two, the mineral spirits should not go through the engine. Drain out everything. Then after you get everything together fill with oil and run for a short distance and change the oil again. A filter screen would be a good thing to have too.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 07:24 pm:

Wipe off what excess mung you can get to and put it back together. Since you haven't driven the car you have no idea what is going on with it. It might smoke rattle bang or any other malady. I'd hate to see you get into the transmission and then say I have to do the motor now or don't do the motor and miss something. You're not very far into it now, put it back together and see what you have.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 09:53 pm:

Hmmm, I'm in the same boat as Kohnke Rebabbiting...Pull the friggin engine and make sure everything is as it should be (I wouldn't button this bugger back up after seeing a transmission in that condition). Since you've got the bloody hogshead off already, I can tell you from experience that trying to put the damnable thing back in and get it to seal like it would if you had the engine out and rebuilding the bloody thing in the first place is near impossible and will probably result in you using two tubes of Permatex black to "glue" the bloody thing back together (especially on a gooey bugger like this one).

The reason I'm advising you to pull rather than clean up and button up, is if this is the condition of your trans, hokey smokes batman, there is no telling what condition your mains are in or that matter the rings and the valves. Bite the bloody bullet and pull the engine, go through it with a fine tooth comb and get everything in proper working order...it'll save you a lot of trouble, headaches and problems unimaginable in the long run.

My 2 worth...pull the bloody engine! Might be more work than you'd like but in the long run you'll feel better and more confident that your car can will be able to run on tours and take from here to there without suffering a breakdown, or becoming a member of the 2 piece crankshaft club (worst case scenario).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Hoffer on Saturday, February 17, 2018 - 08:08 am:

I hear you, Martin!


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