1926 T Coupe Sub Frame Help.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: 1926 T Coupe Sub Frame Help.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Sunday, February 25, 2018 - 10:17 pm:

I would like to know what is hidden up inside between the top of the door pillar cross member and the underside of the longitudinal sub rail.
I guessing it is some kind of metal block or a piece of sheet metal
.
I'd like to know exactly how it is attached, or better still how it could be best removed...

Is there a member out there who thinks he may have a disassembled sub frame amongst his stash.
I'm hoping he does and you will get some pic's for me...
Thankyou in advance, Rusty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Sunday, February 25, 2018 - 10:55 pm:

https://youtu.be/uYIUzCopjpA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 01:35 am:

I watched the video expecting to see the interior body parts of a 1926 sub frame. :-)
However I enjoyed the video even though it was about V8ís


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 03:50 am:

Just thought I'd offer a reward for looking at my thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 05:59 am:

Rusty,
Welcome to the forum!
Here is a thread that I started last year:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/757386.html?1512294734

...and more that is happening right now:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/822076/840184.html?1519608377

perhaps some more:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/822076/826681.html?1517784551

Do you have a picture of what you have or are you totally missing everything?
Vern


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 08:09 am:

Vern, did you ever discover what the small gizmo looks like that I am trying to determine?

Is it a metal block or apiece of bent up sheet metal???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 08:12 am:

By the way Vern,thankyou for the links, I enjoyed seeing a worse body than mine but assume you have been taking good care of what you started out with.

I've been a visitor (just changed my name) on this forum a good while back, but have been out of commission with health and other issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Davis on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 09:01 am:

I've got a 26 coupe front half sub-frame I'll take a look and try to figure out what you are asking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 09:12 am:

Welcome. 90% of my floor/sub-frame was gone, so I actually have never seen that part of which you speak. I think the cross member rivets to the bottom of the rail and the rail is an open folded piece of sheet metal. The "B" pillar attaches to the side of the rail, not the top at that point. I have not found any remnants of wood or steel in-between the cross member and rail at any of the joints on the entire sub-frame but mine is a 1927 fiscal model.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 09:25 am:

OK guys, don't give up on me yet.
There is definitely something hidden that needs to be exposed.
I searched on the internet for an exploded view of the sub frame but so far no luck...

If anybody has some old Ford factory bulletin's there maybe something mentioned or a diagram etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 10:46 pm:

Rusty, I found evidently, two machine screws with square nuts.
This view is from underneath. It's a ummm...cut away. Yeah, that's it.
cross member rail sub-frame
More from underneath...
cross member rail sub-frame
Top view of two bolts. They may have been 1/4" carriage.
cross member rail sub-frame


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 10:59 pm:

So it was some kind of spacer!
I got 2 rivet heads showing on the top plane of my subrail, which must be the same principle as your coach bolts.

I wonder if I drill the heads out, whether they would knock thru and free the spacer ready for removing.

My body is sitting on this painted chassis which is not the stock item and I am having trouble both see in there and also trying to run wiring thru.

https://youtu.be/5GQ8Ujaq7MY

Thankyou for your special efforts in trying to help me out here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lenney Glenn on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 11:07 pm:

At the risk of showing my ignorance, what is a sub frame??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 11:20 pm:

I think the purpose of the two bolts is to hold the cross member in place since that is the length of the shank. However, my replacement parts are welded.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 11:27 pm:

sub frame


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 11:51 pm:

IMHO a sub frame is the structure that ties the body panels together and supports door pillars and the like.
It could be considered the base for the body which then attaches the body to the chassis.

As pictured in the previous post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Monday, February 26, 2018 - 11:53 pm:

Thanks Vern, I will keep that in mind before I do take any extreme action, as I don't want to be creating other problems for myself without being sure of the side issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 01:36 am:

Well folks, I am not going nuts after all.
Thanks for the help from another devoted Model T coupe man we now have photographic evidence of the blocking gizmo that has caused me so much grief.

It looks somewhat like a double saddle clip for a fuel line or similar in a newer vehicle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 01:37 am:

Sorry, no luck with trying to post a pic.
So unless evidence is required I must seek help in posting pic's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 08:25 am:

Rusty,
Email me the photo and I'll post it or send it back to you already compressed. We also recently have this thread on the forum:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/822076/825102.html?1519877028


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Friday, March 02, 2018 - 02:02 am:

PM sent with my email address as I don't have yours Vern.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Friday, March 02, 2018 - 05:35 pm:

These photos were sent to me by Rusty.
unknown A
unknown B
unknown C
unknown D
unknown E


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Friday, March 02, 2018 - 06:06 pm:

Many thanks Vern.
I hope it may help somebody else in the future.
I never knew there was anything like that under the subrails!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Scott Hawthorne, Nv. on Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 12:41 am:

OK Vern, what is it for?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 08:20 am:

James,
They look like standoffs, to keep the folded steel cross member from getting crushed by the two machine screws and the holes do indicate carriage bolts. All of mine were totally gone as I have never seen these but my replacement rails are thick square tubes (1/8" thick). So it would be unnecessary for me to insert them an no need for me to install the bolts except for appearance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty on Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 03:31 pm:

Yes, Vern is correct.
Some kind of anti crush spacer.
They are quite a snug fit and don't want to come out easy.
Since my care is assembled and painted and I needed to remove the drivers side one only, I got thinking how it was best done.

With the two coach bolts in place even grinding the small rivet off does not help.
I ended up drilling about a 1/4" hole either side of the rivet with the intention of coming out as close as possible to the start of the curved hooks.
I then got the blade of a small air sawsall into the hole and cut up and then down vertically.
This released the hooked ends, then I ground off the rivet.
I thought I had it beat, but being such a snug fit the two hook ends were not willing to move much and of course the two bolts shafts were not helping.
So ended up using the sawsall again and cutting out a small rectangular hole so I could get a bit more control and using a screw driver and small tapping hammer, I managed to get all three loose pieces out.
I have not decided what I will do with the hole but expect to make a neat small cover plate to cover it. Welding up the hole could work if I use wet rags around the work area as a 2nd option.
I also removed the bolt shafts for my purposes using the sawsall and a die grinder.
Oh well, its done now good bad or indifferent.
I'm happy with the results and hope my experience now documented may help somebody else in the future.
Rusty


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