Ball Cap opening measurement

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Ball Cap opening measurement
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 09:23 am:

I found a replacement transmission ball cap. The instructions state that the ball that the u-joint is in needs to be cut down 3/8 of an inch. I don’t know if this work was done. My question is what is the measurement of a standard opening? I have included a picture that was borrowed from another thread.
If the one I am currently running has not been cut down. This could explain why and how it is cracked and was leaking oil like a sieve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 10:07 am:

3¼", but why not use a Ford ball cap?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 10:09 am:

Are you running a ball bearing type 4th main? If you have a normal babbitt type, it does not need to be cut down. I don't follow, what was cracked? U-joint housing or 4th main?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 10:23 am:

Looking at the picture, I think you need a better torque tube. The ball area looks all distorted out of round


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 10:27 am:

My 4th main is babbitt and I switched out the brass bushing in the ball for roller bearings from "big L" but I did not have to cut anything. Perhaps if we could see the instructions it would help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 10:40 am:

I would love to put in a standard babbitt ball cap. That would require pulling the motor to replace the output shaft. It had a ball bearing ball cap and I am putting a ball bearing cap back on. The picture above was borrowed. It is not mine.

Some time in the future, the shaft will be replace and a babbitt ball cap will be used. Like everything else I have done on this poor T, I have to do it twice. I really don't want to get very deep into the T just yet. The grand kids and the neighborhood kids are asking when it is going to be ready. Baby steps.

Here is the link to the instructions.

http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/manuals/T3369-BB.pdf

It states if the tube is not cut it can cause the ball cap to crack.

I need to verify if the tube was modified, if not then I will have to do the modification.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 10:41 am:

I agree with Les that that ball looks “used up”
There is no need to cut the ball down when using needle bearings on the front drive shaft.
It is usually necessary to cut down the front of the ball when replacing the Babbitt fourth main with a ball bearing.
I believe the opening of the unmodified ball is 3 1/4”


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 10:59 am:

Some will wonder why I'm posting this. I think a close reading of all the posts above will explain it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZEyvwhjcFk&t=37s


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 11:27 am:

Easy way to check, if the U-joint will just slide in with just enough clearance for it to do so, has not been cut. If there is lots of clearance, it has. I would say, that there is only a small chance it has been cut. I get 3 1/4 opening and approx 4 7/8 to face of bushing.
Re comments about needle/roller upper bearing;
You should not run a roller or needle type bearing in place of the brass bushing, the drive shaft is NOT hardened and unless you are running a Fun-project type pinion bearing that locks the drive shaft in place, you would have no way to hold the drive shaft from moving back and forth unless you use thrust washers to lock the U-joint in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 12:37 pm:

Steve,

Totally fitting. Thanks! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 01:30 pm:

Steve Jelf, Thank you for the link!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 08:08 am:

It seems that the tube has been cut down.
The measurement is 3.17 inches.
I have also attached a picture of my tube.
Now to put things back together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 10:28 am:

Just got a measurement this morning, late but here it is.
torque tube bell

Steve, I'm sure that Bob and Ray have a spare bell for that other guy on the internet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 11:29 am:

Vern,
Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 11:45 am:

Steve does not look to be cut down. You can not just look at the U-joint installed and go by that. The edge does not look flat enough and the machined ring around the inside of the opening looks to still be there. Take the U-joint out and check. 3.17 is not the much smaller then 3.25. The opening would be be greater then 3.25 or 3.17 not less then 3.25 for example the new opening could be something like 3.50 or an opening greater then what you started with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 12:24 pm:

Mark,
I was going to take Vern's measurement and see how close to the 2.64 inches that I am. Unfortunately, I am not going to be able to even look at it for two weeks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 12:43 pm:

The dimensions given are for the machined area of the bell, so it is approx 2.64/.71 to where the machining ends of the back side of the bell. I just went out and checked the one I am working on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 02:04 pm:

Steve B.
BTW, I have the improved 10/26/1926 if that makes any difference. You did not state the year of your T but i can see from your profile that the engine does not have improved coil holder on top.
My measurement is not the same all the way around as the sides are larger than the top. With most of the bell movement going up and down, I suppose our T lost .070 over the past 90+ years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 06:09 pm:

Update:
I finally built up the nerve tom make the cut. Metal cutting wheel for the dremel. I used fingernail polish remover to clean the outside really well, to the tape would stick. I had drawn a line on the tape before hand to give me a constant line to cut by. I first made a small cut all the way around to mark the ball. Pulled the tape off and cut along the line I had just scored. Cut through the ball. Went well. cleaned off the sharp edge.
Now is the time to start putting it back.
It seems that ball around the u-joint could use some grease.

All the pictures I have seen uses some synthetic red grease.
What grease should be used and should I really load it up?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 08:47 pm:

Any good wheel bearing grease for the u-joint, and yes, load the whole cavity full to the top.

Ford put the largest dope cup there for a reason, the u-joint needs lots of grease, and that also helps stop oil leaking down the tube with Babbitt 4th bearings.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 09:41 pm:

Dan,
Thank you for the information.
I will stop by the auto part store tomorrow.


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