Does the long 1911 torpedo column have round or square bolt holes? I have an original such column with square bolt holes, while an original 1912 column I have have round bolt holes. If it should have
round holes, could it be one sold by the Ford Co. as a replacement column?
My August of 1912 touring column has round holes.
What I am seeking is the shape of the holes on the 60 inch torpedo 1911 column. I have one with square holes.
I have an original 60" Torpedo column and it has round holes. Stripping it recently proved it's not a fake. I do believe that the holes changed from a plain round hole to a countersunk hole in the course of production, but I don't have documentation for that. The ones on mine are not countersunk.
I have seen 2 original Torpedo / Open Runabout columns in person. Both had round holes.
I know that mine is original. Could have changed late in production from the factory or a later factory replacement.
I found this torpedo column in about 1955. It was found with other original 1911 items .
Currently the MTFCI Seventh Edition Judging Guidelines share that the square holes did NOT come along until 1912 and then they were not on the early 1912 cars but were on the later 1912 cars.
It doesn't mean that it could not have happened, but I would lean towards it being an unusual event and not the typical 1911 torpedo or open roadster steering mounting flange.
I would think that obtaining the factory drawing along with the record of change card would give you a more accurate understanding of if the part was ever offered from the factory on a car; or if it was a replacement part; or if it was something else.
Have you had a chance to strip the paint as Walter mentioned above? Have you been able to confirm that the flange is indeed the correct angle (lowers the column) for the Torpedo & Open Runabouts?
The factory drawing and record of change cards would also substantiate what occurred and if appropriate the information could be used to confirm that the current published information is accurate or it could provide the evidence to update the guidelines etc. If you need the factory number -- let me know and I will try to look it up.
Note Gail Rodda's "Model T Ford Parts Identification Guide" vol 2 on pages 34 & 35 shows a mounting flange with the square holes and has "The mounting flange used on 1913 cars, notice the holes are now square for a carriage bolt."
Bruce in the section of his online encyclopedia did not address the shape of the holes see: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/S-T.htm#steer
Hap l9l5 cut off
it came with the bracket. The angle is correct for both the flange and the bracket. The bracket has the correct factory number for the 1911 torpedo bracket. The paint is original. I know that other columns did not have square holes until 1912. This column might be a replacement made in 1912 for the 1911 torpedo. I may bring it to Chickasha. I also have a 12 revet clam shell 1911-12 rear end complete with guts and tube bolts I was going to b built up a 1911 open runabout, but used many of the parts on a 1909 roadster project that I sold.
Update on Darelís original 1911 steering column flange/base. Darel checked it again and it actually has round holes. That agrees with the current documentation some of which was listed above. Below are the words Darel posted concerning the column from the thread at: --http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/822076/843829.html?1520137018
1911 torpedo column again
By Darel J. Leipold on Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 09:06 pm:
I was in error. My column has round holes placed correctly. It was setting on a shelve along side several other early columns including a 1912 and a 1914 columns. I looked at the wrong lower end. We had a nice discussion over this. Sorry for the error.
Hap l9l5 cut off