Oil temperature......

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Oil temperature......
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 07:12 pm:

Does anyone know what the average (or maximum) oil temperature is in a T engine? Even an educated guess would help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Thompson Graham NC on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 07:29 pm:

I would guess it runs almost as hot as the water


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 07:58 pm:

Throw us a bone George, why do you want to know that ? Philip's guess is reasonable I think. It shouldn't be awfully hard to get an actual temperature.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 08:01 pm:

Oil in my 2011 Jeep runs around 230* F. The coolant around 190* F. Radiator temp depends on the thermostat...which most T's don't have. I'll check it again and post more specific numbers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 08:11 pm:

I'm building a permanent magnet replacement for the original magnets. It consists of an aluminum disk, 3/4" thick and the diameter of the flywheel. There will be two permanent magnets at each pole position, held under the keepers. I got the inspiration from a post back in 2011....it looked like a great idea, just trying to decide what type/size of magnets to use. Since I've run into a couple of design "hiccups" I sent a message to the original poster and asked some questions, but he may be off the forum at this date. We'll see.

Neodymium magnets will only stand about 175 degrees or so. My only other choice is Samarium Cobalt which can go up to 500 degrees..but they're expensive!

All the machining is done on the disk and it turned out well, so I'll get the wife to post some pictures later.....if it succeeds!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder, Iowa City IA. on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 08:16 pm:

My 24 touring runs about 10 deg below water temperature.
It depends on what direction you are traveling compaired to the wind.
If you over fill the oil 2 qt the temperature nearly pegs the gage.

If you are running a Scat crank temperature match water temp or a little higher.
My water sensor is in the water outlet.
My oil sensor is in the hog head in line with the flywheel.
It takes 35 miles for the oil to reach temperature


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 09:14 pm:

The oil in a normal, Broke in T, runs about 280 degrees, average, depending on what your doing with it. An engine that is newly rebuilt is 300 to 400. If all the clearances were on the tight side, they can run over 500. This would be before break is done.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 09:16 pm:

Thanks everyone........looks like the more expensive magnets are the only realistic choice. I'll keep you posted as to how this turns out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 01:22 pm:

If you don't have all that drag from pulling the V magnets through the oil, it will run cooler, been thinking of this myself. Dave in Bellingham,WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 01:39 pm:

George, If the project is not to secret Id love to see photos of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 02:07 pm:

Not secret......it's just that my wife is the computer "guru" when it comes to putting pictures on the internet.......

Picture this in your mind..an aluminum 3/4" thick disk machined on both faces, with a diameter just under that of the flywheel. The center of the disk has a machined hole that is a gentle, push fit over the raised portion of the flywheel center....where the original magnet "Vees) were bolted....and is secured with 3/8" x 1 1/2" bolts. All of the holes for the brass retaining screws were marked with a transfer punch and then drilled slightly oversize. On either side of those holes is a 1/4" diameter "pocket" made with an end mill. These holes receive the 1/4" diameter Samarium Cobalt magnets and the stock keeper placed over them in normal fashion. The magnets will be secured with Rocksett compound during final assembly. All bolts will be secured with Loctite high temperature compound, with the brass screws peined over as usual.

The machining took a while despite being straightforward. The biggest problem I ran in to was that the magnets I ordered were not strong enough. As of this morning I discovered that I will have to place SIX magnets at each location, three on either side of the brass screw. With that arrangement, the keeper will hold just over one pound of weight....listed as "good" by Murray Fahnstock. :-)

If everything goes correctly, I will end up with an assembly that is about two pounds lighter than all the magnets, and I'll never have to worry about loss of magnetization. Again, I'll post some photos as soon as I can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 02:09 pm:

Forgot to mention......the brass spools are mounted in the normal fashion between the aluminum disk and flywheel. This will provide a splashing action for the oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 05:27 pm:

500 degrees temp could have an interesting effect on grade 2 engine bearing babbitt! Melting temperature is about 466/475F


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder, Iowa City IA. on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 05:50 pm:

Frank .
The highest oil temperature I have observed is 240 deg.
Some posters at times I think are fiction writers 😝


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 05:52 pm:

George
You might want to consider talking to Bill Stipe. He built a Model T flywheel magneto using rare earth magnets and it worked very well.
I think the temperature issue you are referring to is the "Curie temperature" of this type magnet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 06:43 pm:

Dean.
Yes, I would have to agree with you!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 09:08 pm:

280 degree “average oil temp” & 300 to 500 degrees in a freshly rebuilt engine??? I agree with Dean about fiction writers!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brendan Doughty Central wisconsin on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 06:30 am:

I have my pickup in the outside oil line which is a 1/2" one from the hogshead. If you get a sudden change you known something is wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 11:55 am:

I have been doing some experimentation with rare earth magnets and a custom mag ring. My results so far are unexpected and explainable.

As we all know, rare earth magnets are orders of magnitude stronger than Ford magnets.
The deflection of the Mag Ring will be significantly increased and the fatigue wear will also increase.

You might consider Grade 8 Ceramic magnets - their temperature range is much wider than neodymium.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 12:17 pm:

You guys better watch out, lest you start being called by your last name. How dare you dispute the word of a "fiction writer"!:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Wednesday, March 07, 2018 - 11:32 pm:

The term ' common Babbitt, refers to lead Babbitt, Frank. Most don't have lead in there engines.

I don't know what turbines have to do with a Model T, or is it that thing I took off my T, last summer, because the bolts got loose.

Well, Davis, all that fiction writing came right out of a K.R. Wilson Tool Catalog, when I was a kid. They have reprints to day that is some very good reading, then nobody has to post the Fiction, I have been seeing in posts.

It is so cute when you, and Frank, try to talk about things you don't understand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 12:01 am:

I don't know why you do it to your self Herm, you must like egg on your face?
You should know after all these years, I only post facts. And just in case you are a little confused, melting temp and pouring temp are 2 different things!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 07:19 am:

Herm,

If nothing else, you are damned predictable. I wish fish bit so easily, I wouldn't leave the pond dam.

By the way, I never named names and it wasn't me that coined the term. Did I mention you were predictable?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 08:53 am:

Will you two please cut it out? PLEASE!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 11:22 am:

A Google search of “average engine oil temperature” turns up this as the first result:

A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees.

Other articles all over the web confirm this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 03:37 pm:

This is it, you guys are trying to equate modern engine Temperatures, that have larger cooling systems, and pressure oil systems, to a Model T, and that won't fly. They are not even close to being the same.

People, another thing the Magnificent 10 Hammer Heads, have confused up on here is, the difference between Water Temperature, and oil Temperature, they will never be the same, at any given time. This is depending on tightness of build, Cooling system, how much oil, wear in the engine. The heat in the oil, and crankcase all comes from the oil that is splashed into each piston, and the Bands.

LOL, Yup, Davis, very hard to Dummy Out, if you would have said the man in the red suite, and a white beard, I would have to go ask the other 9 Magnificent Hammer Heads what that meant. You are so clever, but you have done that the first time I got on here, years ago, so what's new with that.

You are consistently fed Misinformation on the Model T engine, and I have better things to do then defend what I say all the time, when one of the 10, spouts opinion, rather then fact, or many times out dated information.

So when Misinformation is tried to be pasted off as the truth, I just can't let that go, never have, never will.

What I always think of, after time gets down the road some, the Model T owners that come after us will be led in the wrong direction, Sad.

Oil Crankcase Temperature, How much do you think it was when it melted the piston, and didn't damage any bearings, except one rod, No. 3, as the 4th cylinder put molten Aluminum, on No. 3 rod bearing.

So to the Hammer Head 10, a wish for you!!!!!

May your bleeding piles torment you,
and Corns grow on your feet,
and crabs as big as cockroaches crawl on your B%$$# and eat.
And when all the world has forsaken you, and you are a total wreck.
May you fall through your galled A%$ hole,
and Break your F&%$#@& neck!

I am out of here, Hey Royce, and Larry Brumfield, here I come, I see what you mean now !

Herm.











I will put pictures on the last time here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 03:55 pm:

Did you know that the max temp for Glyptal paint is 250F!
So you fella's that love painting that into the internals of your T blocks, watch out! at Herms temps your doomed!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks NY on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 03:57 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 05:12 pm:

It seems the only time Herm was wrong was during that fleeting moment when he thought he had made a mistake.

Some fine talents and sources of knowledge sadly feel a need to be insulting arrogant jerks. I'll miss his legitimate knowledge but not the attitude.

Buh Bye Herm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 06:05 pm:

The average temp' for oil is one thing. (Higher than the Curie temp for neodymium i guess?)
The maximum temp of oil' in a bearing or cylinderwall can get higher than the melting point of babbitt. In a cylinder wall this isn't so bad.

lol


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 06:15 pm:

Well..........the discussion was interesting to read, to say the least! My whole point was to get an idea of the maximum temperature that these magnets would be subjected to. As I mentioned before, the Samarium Cobalt seems to be the logical choice, since they will stand up to 500 degrees. The more readily available neodymium magnets begin to lose their magnetism around 175 degrees. They'll recover when they cool down, but that's not much comfort if you have to wait by the roadside!

At this point I'm just waiting for my rebuilder to make the finishing touches on the short block. When I get it back I'll install the coil ring and aluminum disk, then give it a twirl to see what kind of voltage I can expect. If it looks promising I'll post some pictures and an explanation of what I did, including mistakes to avoid.

Again, thanks everyone!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 06:48 pm:

Agreed Walt, as Herm puts it," misinformation is tried to be past off as the truth"
If it wasn't for us "jerks", then misinformation would be prevalent on the forum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 06:58 pm:

Wait.....
Does this mean the "poll" we took a few weeks ago has been rendered meaningless??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C west central, MN on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 07:31 pm:

George, I'm excited to see your upcoming results, good or bad. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Friday, March 09, 2018 - 12:27 am:

George,
I have been experimenting with rare earth magnets to create a mini-HCCT.
The results are not as expected.
I can produce over 1.5 Amps of AC current but a coil will not fire.
I am still investigating :-(

I previously considered using rare earth magnets on the flywheel.
I came to the conclusion that Grade 8 Ceramic magnets would be a better choice overall.
They are considerably stronger that the original Ford magnets without the thermal concerns of rare earth magnets.

Be-Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, March 09, 2018 - 04:45 am:

Reread your last post, Herm. THAT is the kind of crap you've done since you started on here, and you wonder why some dont like you?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, March 09, 2018 - 05:20 am:

Question for you guys that do pour your own babbit..... What is the melting temp and the pouring temp? I tried to do some research and found a range of temperatures, but without knowing what is commonly used in a T I can't tell what applies.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Friday, March 09, 2018 - 10:33 am:

Gary, do a search for the Magnolia Metal Bearing Book. It will answer any babbitt questions you have.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration