One more KC Warford install question.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: One more KC Warford install question.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 07:59 pm:

Im doing the test fit of the KC Warford into the back of the engine to check for interference of the shifter and the body sub rail on the 27 touring. The instructions say to install the transmission into the back of the engine with the shifter removed and then check to see what interferes with the shifter. The problem Im having is that the Warford front shaft is bottoming out in the hole in the rear of the engine. I cleaned out the hole very well. The Warford shaft slides in easily, but I still have a little more than a 1/8 inch between the Warford and the fourth main flange. So my question is, has any one had to cut off the Warford shaft to gain a little clearance.?? I vaguely remember reading somewhere to use a straightedge across the back of the fourth main and measure the depth of the hole and then measure the amount the shaft protrudes past the mounting surface on the front of the Warford, to see how much clearance the shaft has .. Im guessing I would need to remove about 1/8 to 3/32 inch from the shaft to have aprox zero clearance, then by adding the gasket I should have a little clearance. So has anyone else had this problem ... Thanks ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 09:54 pm:

Donnie, When I test fit my Warford it went in all the way. The tail shaft was deep enough. To make install easier, I partially installed the engine, then mounted the Warford. I found the shifter was handy to hold the Warford while my friend installed the bolts. In my 26 Tudor I did have to trim the front cross piece of the body (where the seats mount) to give the Warford clearance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 10:45 am:

The transmission slides into place easily with the shifter removed but will not go all the way into position. I will have to trim the lower lip of the sub frame below the seat just a little bit to be able to re-install the shifter. But none of the shifter interference problems is affecting the transmission shaft going in deep enough.

I think my problem is the small plug inside the drive plate shaft. It may not be driven deep enough into the inside of the drive plate. If I remember correctly it is similar to a "freeze plug" and is driven into place against the rear face of the drive plate brass bushing. ?? Im going to look at some old drive plates today and see if I think it is possible to drive the plug (and bushing.?) a little further into the drive plate shaft. If the plug is already resting against the rear of the bushing then Ill need to move the bushing and plug. It could be that when the engine was overhauled the drive plate bushing was driven in a little bit too far, causing the plug to be a little bit too far to the rear. ??? Or the bushing may have been a little too long . ??

Oh, the trials and tribulations of working on a model T :-) :-)

have fun and be safe ......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 01:04 pm:

I agree, I think it's the plug, but it's got to be a ways out from the bearing. Usually if it's set in against the bearing you've got to knock it pretty flat so the it doesn't interfere with the pin that goes through that keeps the spring compressed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 08:55 pm:

Seems to me that the freeze plug is installed from the front, not the rear of the drive plate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 09:03 pm:

OK problem solved.... It was not the plug in the drive plate. It was the large rubber O-Ring used to center the Warford to the back of the engine. It appears that the O-Ring was just large enough to need to be "pulled" into place. I am always afraid to "pull" aluminum parts that have small "ears or flanges" for the mounting bolts. Things get broken that way.

After I removed the O-Ring the transmission just slides completely into place. So now that I know what is happening, I can tighten the bolts a little at a time as the O-Ring compress the little bit it needs to compress.

Now I can sleep at night again, knowing that everything is "happy again" in Model T land

have fun and be safe .......

Also, A big thanks goes out to Birdhaven/Texas T Parts for calling me back (after hours) and having a nice long discussion about the KC Warford and the problems I was having. I have always had good service from Birdhaven in the past and give them a thumbs up as to service.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, March 05, 2018 - 10:45 pm:

Mike, you are correct. The plug installs from the front before the bushing is installed. It is driven as far to the rear as it will go and seats against the area where the round counter bore turns to square drive. Then as Gary mentions above the spring pin slides thru, just barely in front of the plug and in effect "captures" the plug between the pin and the inside shoulder of the square drive. Its been a long time since I installed one of the plugs. So I was "backwards as to where it went ... I looked thru my "spare parts pile" today. It really helps to have a pile of parts to go look at when in doubt ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 12:16 am:

I set my plugs after the bushing is in, up against the bushing, then drive it flat with a 3/8" socket wrench extension. It's on the engine side of the pin and seals against the bushing, with a little help from ultra black RTV.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 10:29 am:

I've always turned the welsh plug sideways and down through the u-joint square with a needle-nose then get it turned and smack it from the bushing end to set it ! And, I use RTV down in the square end to alleviate any oil passing through.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 01:03 pm:

I found my plug was loose inside when I took it apart to true up the tail shaft. No wonder why my Warford always had too much oil. I ordered some concave freeze plugs from Dorman pt# 550-015. It'll get the Ultra Black treatment this time when I put it back in.


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