Rear curtain delema

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Rear curtain delema
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 09:41 am:

I've been working on putting a top on my Roadster for a few weeks now. It has been 1 step forward 2 steps back the whole way. Today I think I've hit an impass with the rear curtain. Now matter how much I stretch it it just comes up short. It finally hit me that the rear top bow might be too wide. I didn't rebuild that one the wood was good. Ugh. Anybody hit this problem before?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Thompson Graham NC on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 09:54 am:

step back and give us a wider view. philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 09:58 am:

From the looks of your socket, someone has been into that top before. Perhaps the wood has been replaced, who knows. If you have a Car Touche kit, there could definitely be a problem there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 10:46 am:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 10:50 am:

Larry it is a cartouche kit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 10:58 am:

The rear windows look pretty low. Is there enough material to move the entire rear curtain up so that the excess material can be trimmed up at the bow instead of down at the body?

Here is how the rear curtain naturally hung on my Classtique kit. Even then, I probably should have hung it higher by another 1/2 inch, note how the corners of the main top will have to be pulled down an inch or so to meet the notch in the rear curtain. :-)


pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 11:00 am:

Not an expert but appears to be a 26 unit. Note curve in front bow where it fits center bow. Hope I am wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 11:03 am:

Yeah I was thinking the same things Mark. I may just move the rear curtain up and ignore the pre-sewn areas on the side and re sew them myself. I probably should drape the top over it and see how it lines up before I commit to anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 11:05 am:

Could be Warren. This is a mish mash 24 my father pieced together when he was in high school.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RE Helgeson on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 11:24 am:

The rear curtain looks upside down. Have you tried reversing it? Just a thought.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Hamlin on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 11:26 am:

It looks to me like the front bow is upside down also.
I don't think it will stack correctly when folded the way it is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 11:27 am:

James,

If you move the rear panel upwards, it will put the windows in the proper position, (as mentioned already), and also have the effect of "widening" the rear panel. Also looks like your rear bow is leaning way too far back. Show us a straight-on, side view of the car. Pictures taken in 3/4 view, or extreme close-ups do not help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 11:55 am:

Regarding the rear bow angle, I set mine up so that the top of the rear bow sat on inch behind the body. You could probably get away with two inches if you needed to. :-)


pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 12:02 pm:

Just measured mine. 26.5 inches from pin in socket to outside of front bow. This bow is straight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 12:11 pm:

James,

What you're using as a front bow is really a middle bow, (second from the front), from a Touring car top, and is mounted upside down at that. Look at Mark Strange's front bow above.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 12:16 pm:

I think if you get a proper front bow, it will bring everything into alignment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 12:35 pm:

Here's a better view of the bows on my '24.


pic1

pic2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 12:39 pm:

Looking at your photos again, it looks like you're trying to use a '26-27 rear bow as your front bow, note the curve where it attaches to your middle bow.

Here is that bow looks like used as the rear bow:

pic


You need to take the top material off, step back, and make sure your bows are installed correctly, then start again. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 01:12 pm:

Mark,

He's not using a 26 rear bow as his front bow, he's using the second bow from a Touring car. See my comments above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 01:14 pm:

If you say so... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 01:16 pm:

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 01:30 pm:

Wow several questions answered more questions raised. I'm thinking dad didn't have the correct complete top bow set. Im begining to to think the front bow is something from a touring.

Here is what I started


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 02:12 pm:

Looks like you have the correct rear/middle bow assembly, but not the correct front bow.

Here are some pics of my front bow, in the first pic note that the rear of the front bow is straight (not curved) and has pegs on both sides to fit into the hooks on the middle bow. The pic shows a couple of wire ties that I used to temporarily hold the bows together while I was mocking things up.

I ordered the full socket and bow set for a '24 roadster from Lang's back in 2013. Note that I over-did the notching of the front wood bow so that it would fit in the sockets - I ended up gluing in some filler pieces to make it smooth again. :-)



pic1

pic2

pic3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 02:44 pm:

These are the the two I rebuilt for the front bow. What I couldn't figure out is what the pieces in the middle are for. I tried to circle them in the photo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 02:54 pm:

They are for holding the front bow pegs when the top is folded, like so:


pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 03:26 pm:



Different view of unknown part


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 03:36 pm:

Sure looks like a 26-27 roadster rear bow to me.

I assume it has pegs to fit in the hooks on the middle bow, do the pegs look like they might have been added by somebody later? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 03:46 pm:

There are pegs at the end of the front bow that lock into the middle bow I just never could figure out what the circled piece did. I kept thinking it had something to do with a side curtain or maybe where you tie the Jesus handle for high speed maneuvers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 07:35 pm:

James,

The piece you circled piece is where the flat iron bar is attached in a Touring car top. What you're using as a front bow, is the bow shown 3rd from the left in the photo below. The tab you have circled is where the flat iron bar is attached. In the photo it kind of forms an "X" with that 3rd bow. I'd circle it for you, but my home computer won't do fancy stuff like my work computer does :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 07:52 pm:

Here's another example that shows the tab you circled a little better. Look at the bows on the right. The one marked "20" is what you have for a front bow. You can see the flat bar and the tab a little better here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 07:55 pm:

A 1926 rear bow has 2 tabs on it, as Mark showed above. Your mystery bow has only one tab, like the one I pictured.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 08:04 pm:

Didn't spot that, Jerry is right. In any case, your front bow isn't correct.

Getting the correct bow will certainly help, as will hanging the rear curtain higher. Be sure to check the fit of the main top before you settle on the final position of the rear curtain to ensure that the rear corners of the main top can be pulled into alignment with the "notches" in the rear curtain. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Wednesday, March 07, 2018 - 07:02 am:

I want to thank everyone for the great information and feedback. I'd be lost without you guys. Got to spend the day with the doctor but tomorrow I'll make a plan and keep you posted on the outcome.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, March 07, 2018 - 11:00 am:

James,

Good luck with the Dr. Let us know how the top is coming.

Mark S.,

You're correct in that the bottom line is: Whatever it is, it's the wrong bow...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, March 07, 2018 - 07:34 pm:

Jerry V O and Mark S, Thank you both for so much! Not only a lot of very good help there by both of you? But a minor, and understandable, disagreement, handled very well by you both!
Most of the people that frequent this forum are wonderful, but there are a few people (regulars) on this site that should take a few notes on how to properly handle a difference of opinion.
Thank you all that also contributed. And good luck James G F getting your top looking good and being functional.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Thursday, March 08, 2018 - 10:57 am:

Thanks Wayne, & Mark S. too! :-)

It was a good mystery. Hope James can get the puzzle pieces he needs!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Monday, March 12, 2018 - 10:15 am:




I was finally able to get the rear curtain on. I do believer the top bows on my 24 Roadster are made for a Touring. The front bow has been flipped. I think the bows are a bit longer and wider that the correct Roadster bows.

It is a Cartouche kit but I think they did a fine job and the problem is with the bows and the installer. LOL I installed it making sure the top piece would meet the rear curtain and look semi normal. I did end up cutting the rear curtain and doing a bit of sewing in the upper corner near where the meet.

Tomorrow weather willing I will pull outside and do the top. Need some sunshine to heat it. I've been using staples instead of tacks and I can now say I can remove them almost as fast as I put them in. LOL




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 10:46 am:

Well it's done. It is possible to put a Roadster top over Touring bows. It's not period correct and a bit wonky but look at the rest of the car...LOL

Thanks to all who helped me along the way with comments and emails. And a big thank you to the men and women on the forum who's shared experiences and knowledge gave me the hope that I could do it too.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 10:46 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 10:53 am:

Congratulations!

Leave it out in the sun for a while, it will help take some of the wrinkles out. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 11:06 am:

James,

That came out really decent. It's a "RoadsTour" top :-)


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