More Loop buckles ?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: More Loop buckles ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 02:15 pm:

A short while back a discussion on top straps revealed the front bow to windshield straps were not riveted through the footman loops on the forward bow, but were held with loop buckles. It just occurred to me the stay straps on the rear bow could also be held with loop buckles, I'm wondering if that's what was done originally? That would require a total of six loop buckles per car . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 03:20 pm:

Rich, the loop buckles were used only on the front straps. The rears were riveted.

In my earlier post, responding to Mr. Eagle's question, I stated that the front straps were not riveted; that they used only the loop buckles that Rich shows in his photo (and which is shown the strap drawing detail that I also posted). I have since learned from Russ Furstnow that that is not correct.

Clearly, Ford used two styles of straps. One was the type with the loop buckles, which I had thought was the only type used during the period. But I learned that there was a second type used at the same time that was riveted. Where I got into trouble was assuming that, since the LATER, woven cotton strap had some changes but the PART NUMBER didn't change, that the same held true for the earlier, leather front straps. This wasn't the case! Russ emailed me a copy of the drawing, with dates, for the riveted type strap and it had a DIFFERENT part number than the buckle type. The dates showed that the two styles were used at the same time.

So if you have the loop buckle style, you're good to go. But you are also fine if you have the riveted type!

This is the same situation as with the Ford pliers. For years, most restorers thought that the "fatter", lobster-claw style was the "brass era" type. But according to Ford, the more conventional shape was used at the same time. One style is referred to as "A1" and the other is "A2."

So, many thanks to Russ for setting me straight. I feel badly that I led folks astray, unintentional though it was. I apologize and hope this helps to clean up the mess I made.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 03:52 pm:

RV,
Thanks for clarifying the question on the front straps. Also, I want to point out that Ford identified the rivet used on the front strap as a "tubular" rivet. This rivet splays out once it is peened over.

The rivet shown in the photo of the rear strap is a "double cap" rivet and is flat on both sides. This type of rivet is not correct.
I hope this helps,
Russ Furstnow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 10:04 pm:

Thank you both for your efforts to document these details.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, April 09, 2018 - 11:36 am:

While we are on the subject of straps, were the metal D rings, and the metal O rings used at the same time for the rear straps, or did the D rings come later? I don't know about the D rings, but I've seen reproduction O rings that are too large a diameter, and had to search for originals which I was able to find. Go for it Russ!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, April 09, 2018 - 06:48 pm:

O rings were used with leather straps. The elongated D rings were used with the woven cotton straps.

That much I AM sure about! ;<)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 09:49 pm:

So . . . This should be a round ring rather than a "D" ?



And the rivets should be of this type ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 03:17 pm:

Thanks for the link Rich, yes, that's the answer I was looking for. Tubular rivet upset over a washer, but smooth crimped, not the split out "star" like the picture I posted. That makes me glad, since I really dislike that kind, anyway, especially on tack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 07:52 pm:

The loop buckles are small, I figured I'd best make new straps before Iose them ! Here's a horse butt strip of hide I had laid by

I cut two straps about 18" long off of it, cut the end to look like RV's drawing, and beveled the edges

Tried the loop buckles for fit, then dyed the straps black with vinegaroon ( iron acetate)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 07:57 pm:

The rest was easy, changed out the old straps and punched a hole for the buckle hook to the windshield.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 08:28 pm:

Looking good Rich.
Rich


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