So I've posted this picture for another reason.
I want to remove the horn, which is non-working and is attached to the head. What is the best method to remove the bolt without breaking it off?
My mechanic suggested heating the head and only the head of the bolt with a torch. Looking for verification of this or other suggestions.
What is the reason you cant remove it by putting the wrench on it and backing it out? in some cases if a bolt is stubern and you have a good clear shot,a good whack with a ball pene hammer wll shock it and help to loosen it.
Grant, have you tried loosening it and it just won't budge, or are you just concerned about snapping it off?
I put a wrench on it today and it would not move. I am very concerned about the possibility of it breaking off.
To hit it w/ a ball peen I need to cut the horn mount, no big deal.
I have heated the bolt and then let candle wax drip down into the threads. Has always worked for me so far.
Use a longer wrench or make it longer with a pipe - the threads in the block may break when tightening too tight, but I've yet to see a head bolt break when getting it loose on such a nice engine.
A steel rod between the bolt head and the hammer.
Try an impact wrench on it or tap the handle of your wrench. Seems to work better than just brute force.
Really, if it's going to break, there's not a whole lot you can do about it. Just put a wrench on it, gradually increase pressure on it and see what happens. If it's very stubborn, and if you can get it to back out a thread or two, you might try squirting penetrating oil under the head, letting it run down the body of the bolt and down to the threads. After letting that soak, turn the bolt forward & backward several times to work things loose. Then back it out a bit more & repeat as above.
BTW, the last head bolt I had a terrible time with, turned out to be stuck in the head itself and not the threads. Took hours to get it out, but didn't break anything.
No need to cut the bracket--isn't the horn held onto it with screws/nuts? once the horn is off, you can easily get to the bolt--although, you could then fix the horn and put it back on the bracket without disturbing the head bolt.
I've had luck with stubborn bolts by drilling a small divot in the head and using an air chisel while loosening the bolt.
You could use a long cheater bar on a break over handle and socket to get the bolt loose. Just don't get on it really hard in a sudden pull or jerk. Go slowly a little at a time and you can probably loosen it. A sure fire way to break it off is to give it a hard jerk. It will break most every time. Don't ask how I know!
Listen to Norman and use a impact, but don't get on it to hard forward and back, forward and back a little at a time.
Grant, if you could add the years of knowledge here in your answers it would be really interesting. All great ideas. My Dad would always tighten up every bolt/screw/nut just a little bit, enough to see it move, and then remove it. Always seemed to work. Jim
please let every one know how you removed it. thanks
A sure fire way is to flood the bolt with penetrating oil. Don't rush don't hurry. Keep flooding the bolt over and over.
After a few days, strike the head of the bolt over and over, dead blows on the exact head of the bolt with a 3 pound sledge hammer. These blows will help break the rust and threads loose. Keep penetrating oil flooding the bolt.
Now use an impact wrench at reduced torque slowly increasing the torque as you rattle the bolt. Soon it will slowly begin to break loose. Do not use a socket extension or a 12 point socket. I suggest a 6 point impact socket for a tight fit and more transfer of shock to the offending bolt.
Penetrating oil is snake oil, it does not eat it's way thru rust. nuf said.
I beg to differ. I've had very good results with penetrating oil. On many occasions. Especially overnight.
Mix acetone and atf 50/50 and it will outdo any penetrating oil you can buy
Eugene, you forgot to say to be mixed in a metal can,any other container could be eaten alive.I agree,given a little time it will loosen the nuts on a brass monkey.
For the naysayers about Penetrating Oil: I have used it successfully for every bolt & spark plugs I have had to remove on this car. If the oil can reach the threads, it will help the bolt come loose.
I will let you know when I get it out and how I did it.
For those of us too lazy to make our own concoctions, i think this stuff works pretty good.
Penetrating oils are for use on rusted parts. Never ever attempt to use WD-40 as for penetrating.
brass car guy gave the proper instructions on how to use penetrating oil.
Best are shown left to right. IMO you can't beat Kroil
if you can get to the rust fire & water will take any thing apart. charley
If it breaks it will break on the threads of the bolt and you will need to get the kit to drill it out and retap it. That bolt that holds the horn is by the water inlet and the threads have a tendency to get wet. It might be a good time to pull the head off and clean or replace your bolts, retap and put on a new gasket.
"Machinist's Workshop" recently published information on various penetrating
oils. The magazine reports they tested these products for "break out
"torque" on rusted nuts and bolts. A subjective test was made of popular
penetrating oils, with the unit of merit being the torque required to
remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" bolt.
Average torque load to loosen nut:
No Oil used ........................516 foot pounds
WD-40 ..................... ........238 foot pounds
PB Blaster .........................214 foot pounds
Liquid Wrench ......................127 foot pounds
Kano Kroil .........................106 foot pounds
ATF/Acetone mix...................... 53 foot pounds
The ATF/Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50/50 automatic transmission
fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any
commercial product in this one particular test.
Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with
equally good results. Note also that Liquid Wrench is almost as good as
Kroil for 20% of the price.
ATF/Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a
50/50 mix. ATF = Any type of Automatic Transmission Fluid
I will might agree, IF and a big IF, it can reach the threads and only if it can get past the rust etc along the shank to reach the threads it might work. Spark plugs have exposed threads and a cup around them in the Model T that will pool the fluid. Head bolts are a different story, they are more then a few inches down thru the head in the block. Hint; build a dam around the head of the bolt and pool the fluid. But expect that if it is going to work it will take time for any penetration. Heat or shock from tapping on the head of the bolt are still the best option and even then that might not work.
I've been soaking it in Liquid Wrench penetrating oil for the past couple of days. I have also been beating it with a Ball Peen after soaking it.
I was debating going to Farm & Fleet to get a fancy torch, or using my Milwaukee impact wrench, but I was afraid the impact might break the bolt.
So, just now, I went out with a 2 ft breaker bar w/ an impact socket (hex vs 12 point as recommended). And it just came loose. Some rust on the threads, but not excessive. Does not look like it got wet.
So, thank you all very much. Your posts were read and contemplated and all-in-all it worked.
Again, Thank you!
That's good news Grant. Enjoy that TT!
Grant- you probably already know this- Run a bottoming tap with the same threads in all of the holes to clean the threads. This will prevent similar problems in the future.
RE; Does not look like it got wet.
Fantastic! Glad you got it out.
(Message edited by redmodelt on April 21, 2018)