Remove a head bolt

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Remove a head bolt
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grant J Barlow on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 08:32 pm:

So I've posted this picture for another reason.

I want to remove the horn, which is non-working and is attached to the head. What is the best method to remove the bolt without breaking it off?

My mechanic suggested heating the head and only the head of the bolt with a torch. Looking for verification of this or other suggestions.

Horn


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RICHARD GRZEGOROWICZ on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 08:43 pm:

What is the reason you cant remove it by putting the wrench on it and backing it out? in some cases if a bolt is stubern and you have a good clear shot,a good whack with a ball pene hammer wll shock it and help to loosen it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 08:45 pm:

Grant, have you tried loosening it and it just won't budge, or are you just concerned about snapping it off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grant J Barlow on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 09:38 pm:

I put a wrench on it today and it would not move. I am very concerned about the possibility of it breaking off.

To hit it w/ a ball peen I need to cut the horn mount, no big deal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 09:48 pm:

I have heated the bolt and then let candle wax drip down into the threads. Has always worked for me so far.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 06:00 am:

Use a longer wrench or make it longer with a pipe - the threads in the block may break when tightening too tight, but I've yet to see a head bolt break when getting it loose on such a nice engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 07:03 am:

A steel rod between the bolt head and the hammer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 11:43 am:

Try an impact wrench on it or tap the handle of your wrench. Seems to work better than just brute force.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 12:05 pm:

Grant,

Really, if it's going to break, there's not a whole lot you can do about it. Just put a wrench on it, gradually increase pressure on it and see what happens. If it's very stubborn, and if you can get it to back out a thread or two, you might try squirting penetrating oil under the head, letting it run down the body of the bolt and down to the threads. After letting that soak, turn the bolt forward & backward several times to work things loose. Then back it out a bit more & repeat as above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 12:06 pm:

BTW, the last head bolt I had a terrible time with, turned out to be stuck in the head itself and not the threads. Took hours to get it out, but didn't break anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 12:26 pm:

No need to cut the bracket--isn't the horn held onto it with screws/nuts? once the horn is off, you can easily get to the bolt--although, you could then fix the horn and put it back on the bracket without disturbing the head bolt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Frost on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 12:57 pm:

I've had luck with stubborn bolts by drilling a small divot in the head and using an air chisel while loosening the bolt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 02:03 pm:

You could use a long cheater bar on a break over handle and socket to get the bolt loose. Just don't get on it really hard in a sudden pull or jerk. Go slowly a little at a time and you can probably loosen it. A sure fire way to break it off is to give it a hard jerk. It will break most every time. Don't ask how I know!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene Story on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 08:53 pm:

Listen to Norman and use a impact, but don't get on it to hard forward and back, forward and back a little at a time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Derocher on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 09:11 pm:

Grant, if you could add the years of knowledge here in your answers it would be really interesting. All great ideas. My Dad would always tighten up every bolt/screw/nut just a little bit, enough to see it move, and then remove it. Always seemed to work. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RICHARD GRZEGOROWICZ on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 11:29 pm:

please let every one know how you removed it. thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 12:18 am:

A sure fire way is to flood the bolt with penetrating oil. Don't rush don't hurry. Keep flooding the bolt over and over.

After a few days, strike the head of the bolt over and over, dead blows on the exact head of the bolt with a 3 pound sledge hammer. These blows will help break the rust and threads loose. Keep penetrating oil flooding the bolt.

Now use an impact wrench at reduced torque slowly increasing the torque as you rattle the bolt. Soon it will slowly begin to break loose. Do not use a socket extension or a 12 point socket. I suggest a 6 point impact socket for a tight fit and more transfer of shock to the offending bolt.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 02:28 am:

Penetrating oil is snake oil, it does not eat it's way thru rust. nuf said.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Pergande, Essexville MI on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 03:00 am:

I beg to differ. I've had very good results with penetrating oil. On many occasions. Especially overnight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eugene Story on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 07:24 am:

Mix acetone and atf 50/50 and it will outdo any penetrating oil you can buy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RICHARD GRZEGOROWICZ on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 05:20 pm:

Eugene, you forgot to say to be mixed in a metal can,any other container could be eaten alive.I agree,given a little time it will loosen the nuts on a brass monkey.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grant J Barlow on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 06:13 pm:

For the naysayers about Penetrating Oil: I have used it successfully for every bolt & spark plugs I have had to remove on this car. If the oil can reach the threads, it will help the bolt come loose.

I will let you know when I get it out and how I did it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 06:38 pm:

For those of us too lazy to make our own concoctions, i think this stuff works pretty good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 06:51 pm:



Penetrating oils are for use on rusted parts. Never ever attempt to use WD-40 as for penetrating.

brass car guy gave the proper instructions on how to use penetrating oil.

Best are shown left to right. IMO you can't beat Kroil :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 07:03 pm:

if you can get to the rust fire & water will take any thing apart. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Reid on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 07:46 pm:

If it breaks it will break on the threads of the bolt and you will need to get the kit to drill it out and retap it. That bolt that holds the horn is by the water inlet and the threads have a tendency to get wet. It might be a good time to pull the head off and clean or replace your bolts, retap and put on a new gasket.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 08:37 pm:

"Machinist's Workshop" recently published information on various penetrating
oils. The magazine reports they tested these products for "break out
"torque" on rusted nuts and bolts. A subjective test was made of popular
penetrating oils, with the unit of merit being the torque required to
remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" bolt.
Average torque load to loosen nut:
No Oil used ........................516 foot pounds
WD-40 ..................... ........238 foot pounds
PB Blaster .........................214 foot pounds
Liquid Wrench ......................127 foot pounds
Kano Kroil .........................106 foot pounds
ATF/Acetone mix...................... 53 foot pounds

The ATF/Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50/50 automatic transmission
fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any
commercial product in this one particular test.
Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with
equally good results. Note also that Liquid Wrench is almost as good as
Kroil for 20% of the price.
ATF/Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a
50/50 mix. ATF = Any type of Automatic Transmission Fluid


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 08:47 pm:

I will might agree, IF and a big IF, it can reach the threads and only if it can get past the rust etc along the shank to reach the threads it might work. Spark plugs have exposed threads and a cup around them in the Model T that will pool the fluid. Head bolts are a different story, they are more then a few inches down thru the head in the block. Hint; build a dam around the head of the bolt and pool the fluid. But expect that if it is going to work it will take time for any penetration. Heat or shock from tapping on the head of the bolt are still the best option and even then that might not work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grant J Barlow on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 05:46 pm:

IT'S OUT!!

I've been soaking it in Liquid Wrench penetrating oil for the past couple of days. I have also been beating it with a Ball Peen after soaking it.

I was debating going to Farm & Fleet to get a fancy torch, or using my Milwaukee impact wrench, but I was afraid the impact might break the bolt.

So, just now, I went out with a 2 ft breaker bar w/ an impact socket (hex vs 12 point as recommended). And it just came loose. Some rust on the threads, but not excessive. Does not look like it got wet.

So, thank you all very much. Your posts were read and contemplated and all-in-all it worked.

Again, Thank you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 05:49 pm:

That's good news Grant. Enjoy that TT!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 07:31 pm:

Grant- you probably already know this- Run a bottoming tap with the same threads in all of the holes to clean the threads. This will prevent similar problems in the future.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 11:48 pm:

RE; Does not look like it got wet. :-)
Fantastic! Glad you got it out.

(Message edited by redmodelt on April 21, 2018)


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration