1922-ish T or not?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: 1922-ish T or not?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Alvord on Friday, May 04, 2018 - 11:01 pm:

I ran across this T and see the windscreen is tilted back... but its the early fold down top type. It's presented as a 1922 T, is there a way to tell the body is 22?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Saturday, May 05, 2018 - 01:21 am:

looks like high cowl, 1923(4) -1925 with wrong windshield.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Warren on Saturday, May 05, 2018 - 08:57 am:

looks like a fun car


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, May 05, 2018 - 09:29 am:

Maybe for someone, but Jason is looking for a more or less correct car in the 1919 to about 1922 range, and this one really does not fit the search parameters.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3487/861989.html?1525470058


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, May 05, 2018 - 02:32 pm:

Jason,

Yes, there is a way to tell if the body is a 1922 "IF" it has the original floorboard riser and "IF" the body was made by Beaudett (also spelled Beaudette and referred to as Pontiac on most of the Ford Motor Company USA records). Note some of the other body makers at various times also had a year and in some cases a month stamped along with the body number. In the 1921-22 time frame Beaudett appears to have stamped the year in the metal floor board risers when they were made and then added the body number when it was assembled or closer to being assembled.

Below is photo of where to look using Jim Cook's 1916 "Oh Henry" which was a touring car and was later cut off to make a pickup truck and has been passed down in the same family since new. (Thank you Jim! (comments added by Hap)).



Because it is an earlier body, the floorboard riser is wooden. In this case the "W" stands for Wilson that was the body company. The "8" for Aug and the "15" for 1915. His family's car was an early 1916 model year that was produced in calendar year 1915.

Below is a photo of Doug Hauge's 1921 Roadster. Beaudett had switched from wood to metal for their floor board risers. While it is hard to see in the low resolution photo, close examination of several photos of his right front floor board riser reveals it has a 21 at the end for 1921. (Thank you to Doug for sending me that photo. Comments again by Hap.)



Note there is also the odd occurrence every now and then when an original body is assembled onto an original chassis and there is 6 months or so between the date on the body and the engine serial number. It would be easy to say well the body or engine was swapped sometime in the distant past. But in at least one of those cases it appears the car has a known history, stayed in the same area, and had that odd combination.

Note, you might want to clarify what your desires are for a 1919-1922 touring. You can have a 1919-1922 bodied car that is registered as a 1919-1922 Model T but has a earlier or later engine, transmission, rear axle, wheels, running boards, fenders, lamps, top, etc. Ford insisted that the later parts should be able to fit the earlier cars. In some cases that meant you needed to replace several parts to get the new part to work on the old car (for example if your 1918 and earlier over the wishbone was broken in an accident the mid 1919-1927 will fit, but you also had to replace the spring perches to go with the later wish bone etc.)

Have you joined one of the local chapters or are you already familiar with the Ts or is this your first Model T to purchase?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, May 05, 2018 - 03:56 pm:

Here is a picture of our 22. Yours appears to be the same but the windshield is slanted. Perhaps modified windshield posts. Also yours has late model wire wheels.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, May 06, 2018 - 05:51 am:

When did the Canadians adopt the slanting windscreen? I believe it was some time before the USA. Here in Australia, Duncan and Fraser adopted it in 1920.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, May 06, 2018 - 07:44 am:

To reduce thread drift -- the photo of the runabout with the wooden pickup box has the rounded mid 1917 to 1923 USA style straight windshield. It appears the lower bracket were bent and/or the were mounted so the windshield would slant towards the rear. Ford Motor Company did NOT produce the car that way.

Allan,

Yes, the Canadian slant windshield and one man tops were introduced several years before the USA company introduced them with the 1923 model year that started in / around Sept 1922 (ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1923.htm ). Why "around Sept 1922" ? Because the different branches would have continued to use up the older parts and they would almost never all switch at the same time. I'm not sure how they worked that for the introduction of the "improved model" in Aug 1925.

The MTFCI Judging Guidelines 7th edition list the slant windshield and one man Canadian tops in the 1920 model year. I wish they listed their references.

The Canadian Price List of Parts supports that 1920 model year as that is what they list the Canadian one man top and slant windshield as starting. See the thread at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/663380.html for additional supporting information (as well as questions).

Note in the USA the slant windshield and one man tops were introduced on the touring car several months earlier than on the runabout/roadster. I would guess that a similar introduction may or may not have occurred with the Canadian production.

And of course the next question would be -- what month(s) were they introduced and how much overlap when both styles may have been produced. I love what Roger Gardner author of "Ford Ahead" says. It is something along the lines of "Ford of Canada often sent the older style cars to New Zealand to get rid of them." It would be nice to know if that was true and if so was it planned or just a result of the additional time for shipping.

Respectfully thread drifting,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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