Rocky Mountain Brakes

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Rocky Mountain Brakes
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 05:15 pm:

Okay, Iím working on the T now and have the floorboards removed to see how the Rocky Mountain brakes work. The car has been hard to stop since I bought it 7 months ago. Iím going to pull the inspection cover in a minute but, wanted to ask about the brakes in the meantime. My question is, are the Rocky Mountain brakes only used when you pull on the brake lever? That is how itís setup to work on this T. It seems that it would be a pain every time you want to stop you have to pull on the brake lever? I have not tried pulling on the lever to stop yet as winter was starting to set in after I bought the car. The few times I drove it I would have to mash on the brake pedal to the floor and it barely stopped the car! The pedal would then stick down when I removed my foot. I figure the brake band needs adjusting.
Thanks,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 05:43 pm:

Years ago when traffic was much lighter then today, people did that, hook the external brakes up to the parking brake lever. Just about the dumbest idea that ever came about. Yes I know there are some out there that just love it that way, I say BS! Defeats the reason of having the external larger brake.
What year? You don't have it listed on the profile.
At the lease you would need; correct brake pedal, rods, equalizer and ez-slider. Depending on what year your rear end is and what is still in place. small drum rear end; You would need: drums, shoes and cams. Big drum; shoes and cams.
From the sounds of what you are describing about the transmission brake, ether needs adjusting or relined.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams, Hillsboro Oregon on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 05:45 pm:

There is something that should engage the rocky's that connect with the brake pedal. Cause if you miss a shift and stick an aux trans in neutral, you want to be able to stop without grabbing the E Brake lever.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 07:01 pm:

if you need the brakes in any emergency, your foot is probably faster then your hand the otherwise occupied with steering.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 07:05 pm:

If these are the Rocky Mountain Brakes currently being sold, The equalizer is mounted on the cross shaft with the parking brake. The equalizer is not tight but hangs loosely and when the parking brake is applied, it pushes forward on the equalizer which tightens the Rocky Mountain Brakes. I like to adjust so that the parking brake begins to stop the wheels and then one more click of the brake lever will lock both the parking brake and the Rocky Mountain brake. That way the brake will hold when headed uphill or when backing up.
There should also be a link between the foot brake pedal and the equalizer so that when you push on the brake pedal it applies the Rocky Mountain brake. I like to adjust that link so that it starts to tighten the Rocky Mountain brake before the transmission band tightens so that most of the braking is done by the rear wheel brakes but if you push hard both the wheel brakes and the transmission brake are applied.
There should be either a tab welded to the bottom of the brake pedal below the shaft or a pedal made with that tab forged into the pedal. The newer links have a sliding end which is attached to the equalizer so that when you pull the parking brake it does not move the foot brake pedal, but when you push the pedal it moves the equalizer.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams, Hillsboro Oregon on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 07:45 pm:

Great explanation Norman. Thanks for the adjustment tips also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 09:45 pm:

Well, something is definitely not right! A few things, I noticed in Normís post. The brake lever only tightens the Rocky Mountain brakes. There is no linkage rods to the small drum original brakes. When I removed the inspection cover this small flat plate with a hole for a screw fell back into the transmission. I was able to fish it out. The hole is tapered for a tapered screw. Couldnít find where that mightíve come from?
I cleaned the screen and magnet and adjusted the foot brake 2 turns. Reinstalled everything and started it up. It was getting dark so I just tried going forward and checking the braking. It seems better with the foot brake and when I pull the brake lever, holy crap does the thing stop right quick! But, I didnít see anything connecting to the foot brake except a sliding type celvis setup. It doesnít engage the Rocky Mountain brakes at all. I will have to investigate this more another day. It just doesnít seem right to me to have to pull the lever every time I want to stop! Oh, itís a 1923 Fordor without ruckstell, just the original rearend. I havenít update my profile in some time, sorry.

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Monday, May 14, 2018 - 08:18 am:

Okay, I think I may know what the problem is from searching photos on the modeltfordfix forum. The sliding celvis needs to be almost in contact with the end nearest the brake pedal, thereby engaging the Rocky Mountain brakes when stepping on the pedal. Then with the pedal released and you pulled on the brake lever to engage the Rocky Mountain brakes when parking the pin slides to the rear of the celvis.

How it is currently setup on the car is the pin is positioned right in the middle of the celvis! So, when the brake pedal is pushed down all the way the celvis just barely reaches the pin thereby NOT engaging the Rocky Mountain brakes! So, Iíll just have to adjust the sliding celvis and there is plenty of threaded rod. Itís cool when you figure stuff out on your own. Now Iíll have to figure out how to post a picture of the metal piece I found in the inspection cover screen.....

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Murray on Monday, May 14, 2018 - 08:50 am:

The small plate with the tapered hole that you fished out of the transmission...is that one of the plates that clamps the outer end of the magneto magnets to the flywheel?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Monday, May 14, 2018 - 09:18 am:

Yep that's what it is...I had two them float around in my trans...time to pull the engine and rebuild that magneto. It's the only way you can fix those magnets...by the way are you sure there's only one? Usually one shears off the head of the brass screw and hits another one shearing it was well. Best not to take any changes...pull the engine and rebuild that magneto, before something a hell of a lot more serious happens (like a magnet letting go and flying with the greatest of ease though the side of your hogs head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, May 14, 2018 - 09:55 am:

Here's a pile of magneto parts.


On the right are the magnet clamps Jack asked about. Some are curved like these, and later ones are rectangular. If that's what you found Martin is right. Forget about the brakes for now. It's time to pull the engine and rebuild the magneto. Running the car with a disintegrating magneto is flirting with disaster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, May 14, 2018 - 10:29 am:

I think Steve is right about the plate with the tapered hole. If the magnets break off the flywheel they can completely destroy the magneto and sometimes break the hogs head. So it is time to rebuild the magneto. You need the books "Transmission", "Engine", and "Electrical system" Follow the instructions in those books for checking everything and rebuilding or replacing everything which does not meet specifications. Then assemble correctly.
Now back to the brakes. I would agree that the sliding clevis needs adjustment.
Another thing which you indicate is there are no rods for the original parking brake. Many cars which I have seen had the parking brake drum removed when the Rocky Mountain Brakes were installed and no shoes or rods on the original parking brake. This can lead to disaster if you should happen to break an axle while climbing a hill! The car will begin to roll backward and you need the parking brake to stop the car. Unfortunately when the car is rolling backward the leverage will disengage the Rocky Mountain brake! So you need the parking brake to hold you from rolling backward on a hill. You should order the longer bolts for the wheels from the vendor and obtain a set of parking brake drums,rods,and shoes. The parking drum goes inside the Rocky Mountain Drum. You might need axle shims to move the hub farther out. Try the wheel on the axle first and if the drum scrapes the parts inside the backing plate, use the shim to move it outward. The ends of the bolts might also need to be ground off to clear the parts inside the drum as well. Leave enough of the bolt so that you can peen the end over the nut.
Hopefully I have helped you rather than confuse you. I just finished installing a set of Rocky Mountain Brakes on a car I have in my garage. But I didn't take any pictures and the wheels are now on and axle nuts torqued to 100 ft.lb.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Monday, May 14, 2018 - 03:51 pm:

Steve,

Yes, that is the plate in the picture! So, the magneto needs rebuilding is it safe to assume that I could buy the magneto already rebuilt from one of the vendors that they have on their website? Also, what does the optional $60 each surface grinding mean? And is that necessary? Just gathering all my research on this for now.

Thanks,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 - 01:17 am:

Willis, re-wound coil plates are available from the vendors. The rest of the magneto is the flywheel assembly, with the magnets, keepers, brass screws and the starter ring gear on later cars.

Surface grinding may be offered to get the magnet keeper plates at the same height, making setting the gap between the flywheel and the coil plate so much simpler. Otherwise, a deal of time can be spent setting the height of each keeper plate to match all the others. This really requires a special tool to make the job easier and more accurate.

Personally, I assemble mine and adjust the keepers so they are within approx .010" of each other, and then have them surface ground. That way a minimum of material is removed.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 - 11:17 am:

I imagine you have the current Rocky Mountain brakes. If not, I can supply you with photos of the original set up.


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