Would like to know year of this Model T

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Would like to know year of this Model T
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Sunday, June 10, 2018 - 11:31 pm:

Posting from an email I received, could you guys please comment.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Sunday, June 10, 2018 - 11:33 pm:

1924-25


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Instness on Sunday, June 10, 2018 - 11:37 pm:

Based on the slanted wind shield, radiator apron, and 30x3 1/2 tires I'd say a 1923 or 24.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Instness on Sunday, June 10, 2018 - 11:53 pm:

I can't tell if the fenders have the 1924 lip on the front. Maybe someone else can. Looks to maybe have a set of accessory hun caps on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Instness on Sunday, June 10, 2018 - 11:54 pm:

Should say hub caps. Sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 12:21 am:

Erik is correct. 24-25.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Matthiesen on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 02:13 am:

Looks more like a 1924 due to the two smaller rectangular back windows in the top. The 1925 used one larger rectangular back window.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 11:06 am:

According to Bruce's black book, the single window in the rear curtain was introduced late in the 1925 model year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 11:29 am:

I agree with '24 maybe '25. May I say I am fond of the fence and the foliage?
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Matthiesen on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 01:37 pm:

Thanks Erik, I was just going with typical looking year, it could be a 25.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 02:04 pm:

Ha!! Chris ....”would you guys please comment?”... you should know, wild horses wouldn’t keep us from commenting. :o)
I concur; MODEL YEAR ‘24-‘25..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 02:24 pm:

To me that T has typical 1924 model year features, double rear windows, and the standard for the year windshield wiper.

The upper frame first punched for that wiper in 1924.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 02:29 pm:

I wonder if it became standard some time mid year 1924.

Betsy, my January 1924 build touring (now a pickup), did not have any holes in the upper windshield frame for either the wiper or the rear view mirror. I added holes for the rear view mirror, and mounted an aftermarket clamp-on wiper assembly.

However, the windshield frame that came with the 1925 touring body that I bought from Bob Bergstadt has holes in the upper windshield frame for both the wiper and the rear view mirror. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 03:07 pm:

Mark

That seems proper. Dating changes to Ford engineering part updates, and then accessories is best by survey of original T's that are un-molested. Fairly steep road to travel!

My very original '24 is engine #10,377,xxx build date Aug. 16, 1924. Now that should make it a "new" 1925, but it still has the '24 features, does have the holes in the upper frame for wiper and mirror.

But, the records state that 'four-dip pan (crankcase) first used July 18." Well now, my Aug 16 has the 3-dip pan....un-touched, still with engine dust pans too, so....??? a new '25 or just a late '24 :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P.J. Thiessen-Elkhorn NE. on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 03:10 pm:

I also say 24-25 due to the tall radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denny Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 04:53 pm:

Rich,

I like that painting, My grandfather had a fence like that around his yard but his grass was pristine and no weeds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 06:02 pm:

Thanks Denny. Double Loop Ornamental Fencing was popular in the early 1900's but hard to find today. I remember it as a child.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 08:40 pm:

Bottom Line Up Front: For a USA T – I believe 1924 to mid 1925 “IF” the rear windows are original. But according to the MTFCI 7th Edition Judging Guidelines that say the single window was for the 1925 cars. (I wish they included references, but then the book would be much thicker.)


Chris,

You didn't mention if it was USA, Canadian or other production. If the rear windows are original to the car it is NOT a Canadian T. If it was a Canadian T then the information listed in Bruce's book may or may not apply as far as when things changed -- as those were for the USA production. And Ford of Canada did somethings at the same time and others before or after the USA made the changes.

Dan -- The more and more I study the 1909 (assembled and sold starting Oct 1908) to 1927 Fords, the more evidence I see that Ford seldom cared about so called "model year changes." The introduction of the Model T in Oct 1908 may have been one of those exceptions -- although Ford had hoped to introduce the Model T earlier but couldn't do that. Another major exception was the introduction of the 1926 improved T. In the USA it was done nationwide on Aug 26, 1925.

Ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc25.htm AUG 22, 1925 Letter from Chicago Branch

Announcement of the "improved Ford car," stating that it would be first advertised to the public in the afternoon papers August 26, and the morning papers on August 27, with weekly publications the following week. The cars were not to be displayed before the 26th. The letter stressed that the term "New Ford" should not be used; rather "Improved Changes in Body and Chassis," or "Improved Ford Cars."

But even the "Improved Ford Cars" 1926 features were introduced over time in some of the other locations (such as Australia).

Minor type-o I suspect your 10,377,xxx engine was listed on the Aug 26, 1924 engine logs and not Aug 16. But that is not necessarily the date the engine was assembled -- but rather the date it was contained on the serial number range that was listed. If it was assembled at the Highland Park Plant, and if the car was also assembled at the Highland Park Plant, then your car may have been built on Aug 26, 1924. But if the engine was shipped to a branch plant for assembly there - then it would have been later.

In calendar year 1924, only 112,702 of the Fords were assembled at Highland Park out of the total USA production of 1,790,278 Fords. That is approximately 6.23% of the Fords assembled at the main Ford Highland Park Plant with the other 93.77% assembled at the Branch Plants. (Ref page 466 Bruce McCalley "Model T Ford")

In the case of the note from: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc24.htm that states:
JUL 18, 1924 Engine production records, Ford Archives
New (four-dip) crankcase begun.

We would need the note of when the last three-dip crankcase was used or when “all production now used four-dip crankcase to know how long the overlap was when both styles were used. We do know that for the transition from the two door valve cover block to the single door valve cover block began 1 Nov 1921 with the first single door valve cover block began (ref page 526 McCalley) and ended Apr 3, 1922 when “All one-piece doors beginning Apr 3” was noted in the engine logs (ref page 526 McCalley). So just over 5 months over lap when both styles were produced at the main Highland Park Plant. And if an engine was assembled at a branch plant using a two piece valve cover block, it may have been assembled later and stamped with a serial number that would be on the Apr 3 or later engine log sequence.

All that to say Bruce often used the term “typical” because there often could have been exceptions – especially depending on where the car and for that matter the engine were assembled.

Again, thanks to everyone for their support in adding to the information with documentation as well as “fossil evidence.”

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 - 07:59 pm:

Chris I, it has a high radiator, so not a '23. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 - 10:29 am:

1924.


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